Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Kevin: Hello, and welcome
back to Subspace Radio.

It's me, Kevin.

Rob: And me, Rob.

Kevin: And we're here to talk about season
four, episode five of Strange New Worlds,

"Level Five Transporter Accident." And I
have a feeling I'm just gonna sit back and

let you go today, Rob, because you, you
are the connoisseur of the puppet among us

Rob: And especially considering we were
graced by the, uh, ingenious, brilliant

people at the Jim Henson Creature Shop
to create our fabulous puppet, uh, crew.

Um,

Kevin: many behind-the-scenes clips
and videos to partake of this week.

If you're, if you're not on Instagram,
do yourself a favor, sign up.

I know you probably haven't heard of it,
but it's worth it this week to get on

there and see some of the clips being
posted by the puppeteers at Jim Henson

Company aboard the USS Enterprise.

Rob: They are the, uh, the best in
the business, the best in the world.

And, uh, it was an honor and a privilege
to have them, uh, share their expertise

with our, our, our little franchise
for just one week, uh, uh, this week.

Kevin: Yeah, I, I, I kinda want a
puppet episode every season now.

Like, let's make it recurring, you know?

Every season we check in with Spock's
subconscious through the lens of puppetry

Rob: Exactly.

Exactly.

And, uh, wouldn't the
world be a better place?

Now, um, I'm judging by the, the
overall tone that there was a, a, a

like of this episode, Mr. Kevin Yank?

Did you

Kevin: Oh yeah, this was
a, this was a good one.

And I was like, this… Everything
that didn't work about "Human Best

Friend" earlier this season worked here.

Like, I think there
were, there were stakes.

It felt meaningful even though
it was all a dream at the

end, like, that didn't matter.

The, the, the characters who
were in the comedic situations

were not winking at the audience.

They were trying to solve a very important
problem of what to do about the Orions

that have, uh, arrived aboard the ship.

And so yeah, I, I enjoyed it end to end.

I was smiling and laughing throughout.

This is a highlight of the
season n- no doubt at all.

How about you?

Rob: Look, I'm, I'm-- I
absolutely, uh, adored it.

I adored the, the puppetry.

I loved the comedy that
came out through that.

I loved the whole fact that, um, the,
the one, you know, persons who stayed

in their, uh, actual form was Spock.

Um, uh, I didn't like how it became…
It was all a dream in the end.

That kind of, that kind of
pulled the rug out from under me.

That really disappointed me.

If they were gonna lean into it, they
should have really leaned into it,

and if they were gonna make it all a
dream, the writing should have been a

bit more focused that Spock was the,
the main POV 'cause any time we were

focusing on, like, Scotty's dilemma or,
you know, problems with Pelia and stuff

like that, after the wake-up you're
going, "None of that mattered," 'cause

it was all from Spock's point of view.

So I kinda, I kind of lost a bit of, uh,
not my love for it, but a lo- a l- I, I, I

got the wind kicked out of me a bit when I
went, "Oh, come on, cowards. Lean into it

completely." Um, or at the very least give
us some sort of, like, telegraphing within

the episode that it's, you know, the
main point of view is from Spock, so that

could have given us that clarity for me.

But there is so much joy,
so much fun in this episode.

Um,

Kevin: I, uh, I did not mind
the "it was all a dream" ending.

I think I was, I was taught in second
grade when I handed in my first "it was

all a dream" story, and the teacher tore
it to shreds, that th- this is a cheap

device for when you, as a writer, have
nothing to say and just need a way out

of the, uh, extreme situation you have
written yourself into without purpose.

But I don't think that's
what happened here.

Uh, I think this is, this is a good use
of the dream device because this is an

episode about Spock's emotional state,
and, uh, what better way to reveal that

than through the subjective experience
of having a nightmare, which it would've

been from Spock's point of view.

And I think living Spock's nightmare
with him not knowing he was having

a nightmare is perfectly valid.

I know… I think I have dreams where I do
not feature as the protagonist at times,

that, like, I, my, my sense of self,
like, comes and goes, and sometimes I'm,

I'm watching a movie about other people.

Sometimes I am another person.

Like, all, all of that kind of happens.

And I think all of the things that Spock
witnessed without being present in his

dream, like the Scotty Pelia stuff, was
seeded in Spock's psyche before he went

to sleep or y- before the transporter
accident, that, like, Scotty was talking

to him in the transporter room about
Declan and his, his, and how Pelia

favored him and how this was a, a, a,
you know, a prank to take his revenge.

And so all of that stuff would've
been present and there for Spock's

psyche to play with as it created
this increasingly improbable scenario.

So I, I, I really liked it, and I
liked that when Spock woke up, he was

changed by the experience in a way that
is meaningful to the, quote-unquote,

"real world" story here as well.

I remember when we saw the, um, s- uh,
Subspace, um, Rhapsody, uh, musical

episode, I think I complained that the
thing I liked least about it is that it

was completely unbelievable, that, that
now we l- supposedly live in a galaxy

where the crew of the Enterprise has,
has sung power ballads to each other,

and that is supposed to be science.

Uh, and, and I didn't like that.

And I like what they did here, is
they, they, they played with those

same kinds of, um, uh, farcical
events, and at the end of it went,

"And it, it wasn't science. Don't
worry. It is just the science of the

subconscious." So I liked all of that.

Rob: Yeah, yeah.

Just for me, I thought it could have
been… Yeah, I just would've liked- It

seemed a bit, oh, what's the right word?

Clumsy or I would've liked to have seen
it interwoven with a bit more finesse

to, for, for me to make sense of it.

Kevin: I'll tell you one thing
that didn't make sense to me is

the Enterprise disappearing and
then reappearing at the start.

Like that, as far as I
can tell, is unexplained.

I don't know if they planned to make
it reappear and be a puppet Enterprise

or whatever, but it felt like they…
Someone was told to make the Enterprise

glitch or disappear or whatever, and,
and they just did it, and I, I don't know

what it was intending to convey there.

Again, might just be dream logic,
but this one, it was, felt like

dream logic without a purpose.

It was like just let's just make
something weird happen and it won't

actually have any bearing on the story

Rob: Yeah, there was a, there was a
thought process in my head when it

disappeared that I was there going, "This
is gonna come back as a puppet version

of the Enterprise." But the thing,
the thing about, you know, puppets,

especially since Jim Henson has, you
know, brought them into the modern age,

it's how puppets exist in our reality.

You know, um, puppets up until, you
know, Sam and Friends really, which was

Jim Henson's first show on Washington
TV, was, you know, the world that the

puppet lived in was the box, um, the,
the puppet theater that they built.

And so Jim Henson said, "Well, what
if the TV screen is that, is, is,

is the, is the puppet stage, the

Kevin: So everything inside the TV
screen is part of their reality, yeah

Rob: And so yeah, that becomes a reality.

And then he did, you know, the most
incredible thing ever with The Muppet

Movie that we kind of take for granted
now, 'cause it's as old as I am really.

Well, it's one year younger.

Um, and when I first saw it, I went,
"Of course this is happening." But Jim

Henson took puppets into the real world.

They were driving cars.

They were out on, you
know, um, you know, bayous.

They were doing all this type of
stuff on- sitting on real things,

and so that's what makes them, the
puppets, seem more believable and

real because they are interacting.

So I'm grateful that they didn't
do that because it's great to see

them interacting with, you know,
the real set of the Enterprise as

opposed to a cartoony puppet version.

It's not like a cartoon
exists in a cartoon world.

Puppets become more believable
if they're in our world, and

it's their world as well.

Kevin: There were a lot of, uh, a lot more
full figure shots of the puppets than I'm

used to seeing in a Jim Henson production.

Just like that first one of La'an
standing on the s- transporter

platform before her arm pops off,
uh, was, was, um, it was unnerving.

I was like, "I should not be seeing
anywhere beli- be- beneath your

waist." Uh, that is not how I'm
used to seeing a puppet character.

But, um, well done for, for that.

I fe- I feel like that was inescapable
given the needs of the show

Rob: That t- that type of puppetry is
incredible where it's sort of like four

or five operators, um, working in unison
in sort of like green screen costumes

and you can see some of the behind
the scenes footage of that as well.

Um, and yeah, and to make a justification
the scene with Admiral April there

going, "Well, who's operating you?"

He goes, "I'm in con-" And Pike
going, "I am my own person.

I am in control of myself."

Kevin: So you're puppets,
but you're not puppets

Rob: Yeah.

So, I mean, I could, I could, I could,
I could watch, uh, episode after episode

of Orions shooting at the Enterprise
and Enterprise crew puppets running

around screaming, uh, was absolutely

Kevin: should talk about the Orions
as well because they were upstaged.

Those are a couple of great,
uh, guest stars this week.

We had Rachel Harris and
Joe Lo Truglio and, uh, they

Rob: Joe Lo Truglio is great.

Joe is great.

His work on, uh, Brooklyn 99
and his work on, uh, Paul is

incredible, and he was great here

Kevin: Yeah.

Uh, R- Rachel Harris has
been on Star Trek before.

She guest starred very early in her
career as Kes' mother in an episode

where Kes t- like, time travels back
to earlier states of her life, uh,

or other times of her life, and gets
to, you know, witness her own birth.

And, uh, Rachel Harris is, is
Kes' mother giving birth to Kes.

But, uh, yeah, they, they did a
great… I loved just the, just the

early line of, um, when, when they
fire the torpedoes and Pike calls for

a damage report, and she goes, "A lot."

Uh, you know, it really set
the tone early, I thought.

Rob: Um, I like how La'an
enjoyed being a puppet.

Um, and she embraced that really well.

I love the design of each of them as well.

Like, Scotty looked fantastic.

Kevin: Yeah, there was not just
one approach to the likenesses.

They, the kind of how cartoony they were
was part of the, uh, decision-making,

and some of them were, like Ortegas
I thought was very lifelike.

Uh, whereas, yeah, Scotty was much more
of a cartoon of, of Mr. Scott, I felt.

Rob: Just what they can do with, uh,
you know, a, a puppet design, but how…

So like Ortegas had, uh, the half eyes
with a bit of, um, eyelid showing,

um, compared to s- and, and the li-
the full, the full lips of, uh, Una.

The full lips of Una.

Um, all that type of stuff.

I love M'Benga, M'Benga's p-
M'Benga's puppet was fantastic,

and hearing the gravitas of his
voice coming out of a puppet was

Kevin: M'Benga and Chapel, uh, I love.

They, they were like the, well, I, you
know, "I know this, we're puppets and all,

but the science doesn't stop. We have to
keep exploring." And, uh, I just love them

playing it straight, those two characters.

Rob: Very much so.

Um, so and it's, you know, the
classic routine of having the

puppeteers operating and voicing the
puppets on the set and then redubbed

with, uh, our, our actual cast.

That's a

Kevin: It's hard to tell
in some of the clips.

The, the puppeteer who m- who made Pelia
work, and we need to talk about that

puppet, um, she, she does an amazing Carol
Kane, uh, with the accent and everything.

Rob: Well, I mean, Carol, uh, Carol
Kane is, uh, is, is, you know, the human

embodiment of a, of a Muppet anyway.

Um, so to see that representation, I
went, "Yep, that's per-" The hair was

incredible, the eyes, the face, and,
you know, uh, it all was… And just

Kevin: tininess.

Rob: seeing her, biting an Orion was hil-

And Spock throwing Pike and
in slow motion just, oh, yeah.

Um, and the, the shot of them all in
space, I thought that was… That's,

that kind of, that took away a little
bit for me, like, 'cause each of the

characters were having their own,
you know, this was their moment.

You know, they'd been traveling
in space for most of their lives.

This is what they wanted to do, and
they, now they're able to float around.

And Pelia does the thing, "Hang on, how
can we hear each other and speak?" Um,

but that was a big revelation for them.

It, we took, we took a moment for
them to go, this is their moment

to enjoy this beautiful thing, and
then we wake up and it goes, "Well,

none of those revelations happened."

That kind of disappointed me a bit.

If there was some sort of colle-
collective hallucination or

something like that, that could've
been, uh, some way so each of them

evolved from this, not just Spock.

Spock's evolution was great and
amazing and important and, and

some people have been outraged.

I love Spock kissing,

Kevin: disappointment is that the
characters you love so much did not get

to witness this thing that you love so

Rob: Oh, yeah.

They didn't get to see it.

They didn't get to experience it.

Kevin: And Spock's not gonna tell anyone.

Rob: No, of course not.

He's keeping that to himself.

May- well, of course, you know,
T'Pring of course, but, um, uh, uh,

but yeah, I w- I want, um, Pike to
be able to have gone, "You know what?

I turned into a puppet and
I floated in the s- in the

vastness of space and I survived.

I can take that with me after I, uh,
you know, hang out with Melissa George

on, uh, The Cage planet after I've
been hideously mutilated." Um, yeah,

I want… Yeah, well that's the thing
'cause I love puppets, uh, puppets and

of course Jim Henson's creation so much.

I want everyone to experience that.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

Rob: Not- Yeah … Ethan Peck gets
a, you know, gets it all to himself.

Greedy, greedy person.

But yes, Carol Kane's, uh, puppet was
just an absolute masterpiece and, uh,

captured the essence of Pelia perfectly.

Yes, and the size of her, just
how tiny she was and the shot

of her being sliced in half

Kevin: work, the camera work of panning
across the conference room table and

then down to Pelia was just masterful.

That, uh, that had me doubled over.

Oh, so good.

This had more shouting out loud on the
couch, "Oh my God, what am I watching?

This is amazing," moments than perhaps
any episode of Strange New Worlds to date.

So in some ways at least, this is
my favorite episode of the series.

Yeah.

Rob: the whole series, not just

Kevin: Yeah, in… Yeah, that's right.

In, in some ways.

Like, maybe, you know, maybe not from
every angle, but, uh, I, I think in pure

entertainment value, it m- it's at least
right up there with Those Old Scientists.

Rob: Yes, definitely.

Yeah.

Um, uh, I am looking forward to
going back and watching it again.

Um, and I, I'm disappointed that th-
there's, that, that there is a, a

negative vibe out there, but the negative
vibe is gonna be there no matter what.

I think we can kinda
be used to that by now.

Um, but yeah, taking the joy of it

Kevin: Yeah.

Uh, i- if there is, if there is
one, um, shadow over this episode to

me is that it is, it is crowded by
all of the other big swing episodes

that we have had this season.

I wish this was as special an episode
as it deserves to be, but in a way

it feels like the, the fourth in
a row of, of like format-bending,

format-breaking episodes, and it, it…

Like, I feel like to a certain extent
that was baked into the formula

for Strange New Worlds, but there's
a bit of revisionism about that.

If you go back and watch Season 1
of Strange New Worlds, there is a

lot of straight Star Trek there.

But they have somehow f- uh, with this
season especially, it feels like they

have decided there are no normal episodes.

If we're doing normal, we're doing boring.

These are all crazy.

But when everything's crazy, like to,
to, to adopt the perspective of T'Pring,

"You live on a ship of chaos." Uh, when
it, well, yeah, when the show is always

chaotic, the chaos doesn't mean anything.

Rob: Can you ensure
there will be no hijinks?

Kevin: Hmm.

Rob: Um, it i- it is feeling very much
this season like what, you know, fans

of Doctor Who, ping, there it is again,
um, each episode is completely different

in genre, in style, and all that type of
stuff, and that it's very much a case.

We've had big swings, we've had
dinosaurs, we've had haunted house,

we've had the hangover, we've had
film noir, and now we've had puppets.

And yeah, that is that case of
when we do have some… You know,

if every episode is special, then
no one is, for me to paraphrase,

um, Syndrome from The Incredibles.

Kevin: Yeah, it is almost impossible for
any one person, any one Star Trek fan,

to enjoy every episode of this season.

There is alwa- like it, it is almost so
varied, so extreme in those variances

that something is gonna be distasteful
to, to each member of the audience.

And it's a bit rough.

It's like, "Do you like Star Trek?"

"I don't know. Tell me which
episode because, because I,

no one can like all of these."

Rob: And it's very hard to be, if
you're coming into the, into, into the

season now, so if this is, if you're
watching Star Trek for the first

time, uh, through just this season,
so you haven't even had the run-up of

Season 1 to 3 of Strange New Worlds.

It's a very, uh, yeah,
interesting conundrum that,

that they're putting us in.

Kevin: It's interesting watching
through my partner's eyes who she,

like, deliberately stays out of the,
uh, the trailers and the hype cycle.

And so every week I'm like, "Oh, we got
a new Star Trek. You ready to watch?"

And the, the look on her face is, like,
a bit, uh, a bit trepidatious these days.

She's like, "I don't know.
What are we gonna get?"

Rob: That is the right way to
go about it, at the moment.

Kevin: Well, the, uh, the ultimate
takedown of the Orions on the bridge

by, uh, uh, trickily changing the
atmospheric settings to remove the

oxygen from the space was, uh, our
trigger this week to explore other

examples of characters lacking in
oxygen, uh, holding their breaths for

dear life, uh, possibly even, uh, being
incapacitated by, by the experience.

And, uh, we're gonna talk about
suffocation, asphyxiation, lack of air.

Rob: Yes, we are.

And where are you going?

Kevin: I grabbed a couple this week
because in both cases they were just

short scenes, much as it was this week.

Like, the, the… We did have the outside
the airlock stuff and the on the bridge

stuff, so there was a bit of that.

I, I kind of… When they discovered
their superpower of not needing air, I

thought, "Well, that's game over, right?"

Just, like, remove all the air from the
ship except where Spock is, you win.

But, uh, they went for a few
more hijinks along the way.

Rob: Oh, one thing I forgot to
mention, uh, they did Muppet Man.

They did Muppet Man
and that was incredible

Kevin: What

Rob: the epis- Muppet Man is, uh,
where the Muppets are on top of each

other to pretend that they are, to

Kevin: Three Muppets in a trench coat.

Rob: Three Muppets in a trench coat,
as they call it in The Muppet, uh, the

revised movie, um, with Jason Segel.

Yes, they call it Muppet Man.

So yes.

Kevin: There were a lot of little
nods to, um, to Muppet gags, like,

uh, Scotty no longer being trapped
un- under the torpedo was another one.

Rob: Very Rizzo the Rat from,
uh, Muppets Christmas Carol.

Yep, yep, yep.

And a little bit, and a little bit Roger
Rabbit as well, only when it's funny.

Um, so yes, please

Kevin: So yeah, I've got a,
I've got an original series

and a Next Gen to talk about.

Rob: Excellent.

I have, as of course always, it
would not be a Subspace Radio

episode without my Deep Space Nine.

Kevin: Oh, good.

I look forward to it, 'cause I
can't think of what that might be.

Uh, but we'll start with TOS season
one, episode 23, "Space Seed," which is

the introduction of Ricardo Montalbán

Rob: Sorry.

Khan

Kevin: Yes.

Uh, and in that episode, inevitably
Khan, uh, tries to take over the ship,

and the way he does it is he captures
engineering, uh, changes the life support

settings on the bridge and locks everyone
in there, and Kirk, Spock, and the crew

of the bridge, uh, slowly suffocate.

And it, uh, it happens
over a commercial break.

There's the, uh, there's the
reveal of what has been done.

They, they work at a, a control panel
that, uh, is right at the front of

the bridge next to the view screen.

So it's a, it's a rare angle on the
bridge that Kirk and Spock are there

going, "Oh my gosh, he's, he's disabled
life support." Uh, and we get to learn

what that panel of blinking lights does.

But, uh, they cut to commercial, and they
come back, and it feels like… Well, time

has definitely passed, but it feels like
several hours later, and, um, m- most of

the bridge crew is already unconscious.

Uhura's on the floor.

Spock is looking a little worse
for wear, hunched over his panel.

And the, the camera kinda pans slowly
over everyone on the bridge as Kirk

records his log in, in faltering tones,
um, uh, expressing a desire to give

commendations to various members of the
bridge crew, uh, before, uh, the camera

settles on him and he says, "I take full
responsibility. Full responsibility,"

and then passes out on the floor.

And this is how Khan
captures the Enterprise.

And it's a, it's a nice mirror to,
to the, uh, to the Spock holding

his breath gag on the, uh, on the
bridge of purportedly the same ship.

This, uh… So, uh, one thing that I
noticed is that, like, back in the '60s in

TOS, in the future from, uh, this episode,
it took several hours for the oxygen

to go off the bridge when Khan did it.

But, uh, the crew of the Enterprise
was able to make that happen

quick smart for the Orions.

Uh, I think what I love most
is the commendations in this.

And, um, Kirk does not com- give
commendations to Spock or Sulu or Uhura.

These are the senior officers.

They, they get paid the big bucks.

They don't need a
commendation on their record.

He was thinking of the little people,
and so he rattles off three or four

different names we've never heard
before of, uh, that supposedly belong

to the day players who are, who are
lying passed out in the background.

Um, Lieutenant Spinelli always
comes to mind, uh, from this,

from this little log entry.

And, uh, I love that, that trope of the
captain who's going down with his ship

naming the, the little people that made
it go as, uh- as worthy of commendation.

I enjoyed it very much.

Rob: James T. Kirk, man of the people.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

And then my second one is, uh, from
the Next Gen season five, which

you should know right away this
is peak Next Gen, season five.

This is the good stuff.

Season five, episode five, "Disaster."
We've talked about it before.

Rob: That was one I was gonna,
yeah, one I was searching online and

that one came up and I was gonna,
uh, jump into that one, but, uh,

skipped over to, uh, Deep Space Nine.

Kevin: I love Disaster.

It is a Ronald D. Moore joint, um, and
it is structured in such a beautiful way.

The, the Enterprise just day
in the life runs into a quantum

filament, which we never quite
get explained, but that's fine.

It is a disaster.

It takes out all the power
sh- systems in the ship.

The ship is badly damaged.

Bulkheads, like emergency
bulkheads are closed.

Power is missing from the ship.

The bridge cannot d- uh, detect
life signs in any of the star

drive section and fears half the
crew is, is, has met their demise.

And in this crippled state, the
separated crew of the Enterprise

in several vignettes each wor- have
to work together to, um, bring the

ship back to life, and this is one
of those odd pairings episodes.

So on the bridge, we have Troi,
uh, O'Brien, and Ensign Ro.

And Troi is the ranking officer,
and so she is making command

decisions in this, in this, uh, dicey
situation with Ro second-guessing

her every w- every step of the way.

Um, in, uh, Picard is trapped in a
turbolift with the winners of the science

fair, three kids named Marissa, Jay
Gordon, and Patterson, and he's supposed

to be giving them a tour of the ship, but
he's broken his ankle in the accident.

And so he, uh, he can't save them alone,
so he, uh, dubs these three kids his crew.

He gives two rank pips to Marissa,
one to each of Jay Gordon and

Patterson, so he makes Marissa his
number one, and he calls her number

one for the rest of the episode.

And, uh, these kids are so sweet.

Marissa is super low status and
shy until she is made number

one and takes it very seriously.

Jay Gordon is obsessed with everyone
dying, so he's constantly saying,

"Everyone's gonna die." And Patterson
is the executive officer in charge

of radishes because he won a science
fair by making radishes grow weird in

earth, and he's the youngest and, and
needs to kind of be coaxed along a bit.

They sing "Frère Jacques" as
they climb the, the rungs of the

ladder, the emergency ladder up
the inside of the turbolift shaft.

It is, uh, so delightful
watching Picard, as you know,

does not do well with children.

Being f- being forced to figure
it out, uh, it's so good.

At one point he, he orders them to leave
the turbolift without him because his

ankle's broken and they deci- they, they,
the, his crew decides not to abandon him.

"We all go or we all stay." And Picard
goes, "Very well, I'll try, but you

should know this is mutiny." so good.

Uh, Worf is, uh, uh, eventually
left alone in Ten Forward with

Keiko O'Brien, who is in labor.

This is the episode where Molly

Rob: Molly is born.

Yay.

Kevin: I, I should have asked you if you
could name who delivered Molly O'Brien.

It was Worf, I'll have you know.

Uh, and Worf has, has done a
training simulation of a human

birth at a ca- at Starfleet Academy,

And so he is, he is reading the
manual and, and experiencing no small

amount of frustration that Keiko's
birth is not going by the book.

And it is just so good.

Uh, Data and Riker are in Jefferies tubes
trying to make their way to engineering

and, uh, have several travails along the
way, one of which is a big electrical

arc across the hallway that they figure
the only way they can, um, pass it is for

Data to walk into it and get electrocuted,
and then for Riker to remove his cranial

unit and carry it with him to engineering
to help him reactivate the ship.

So we get a, a Data head in
this episode, which is great.

And finally, Crusher and La
Forge in the shuttle bay.

This is my asphyxiation moment.

Um, Crusher and La Forge start this
episode, um, in the shuttle bay.

La Forge is moving boxes around, and
Crusher's trying to convince him to play

the lead of The Pirates of Penzance in
an upcoming production on board the ship.

We get a couple of lines of "Modern
Major General," uh, sung by La Forge,

and then the quantum filament strikes.

And there is a, a fire, a plasma
fire on a panel in the cargo bay.

They can't get out.

They can't put out the fire.

The only solution is to vent the
bay and starve the fire of oxygen.

And so they hatch this plan that they
are going to vent the bay and then

re-pressurize it once the fire is out.

And there are these… There is
this scary two-minute scene that is

burned into my psyche that they, you
know… This is pure competence porn.

But La Forge and Crusher hatch this plan.

They're gonna, they're gonna vent the
bay, and then they have to walk across

the bay in a vacuum to the life support
panel in order to re-pressurize it.

And the, they, they psych
themselves up to it.

Crusher is all business.

She says, "Once the air is vented,
the first thing you'll feel is an

extreme pressure on your lungs.

You'll have to resist the temptation
to exhale." "Okay," says La Forge.

"Next, our hands and feet will get cold,
then numb, and some of the capillaries

on the exposed sections of the skin may
burst." "Sounds like fun," says La Forge.

"We will have about 15 seconds of useful
consciousness, then about 10 seconds of

extreme disorientation, then we pass out."

It sounds scary, but
they are all business.

They, like, grab the, the ladders and
hyperventilate themselves, and then they

press the thing and the air goes out.

It's incredible.

It all lasts just two minutes, but the…
They stagger across the shuttle bay.

La Forge goes down, and, uh,
Crusher just barely makes it and,

like, scrapes her hand on the
panel and the, the air comes back.

It is terrifying i- uh, uh, in
all the great ways, and, um, such

a heroic moment for them both.

Uh, for me, it's the, it's the best
scene of this episode, uh, in a

very strong episode of, like, odd
combinations of odd characters, and

they all get their, their hero moment.

Um, yeah, one of my favorite
undersold episodes of Next Generation.

Rob: Wonderful, wonderful stuff.

Kevin: Hmm

Rob: Ronald, Ronald D.
Moore does it again.

Kevin: Ah, so good.

I mean, like, you can see the pattern
of like, okay, disaster, we put people

in, in combinations we're not used
to seeing them in, give them all a

problem to solve, end of episode.

But it works just so well.

Rob: Incredible.

And no real, like, the threat is just,
you know, what is thrust upon them as

Kevin: Yeah.

Well, the, there's a ticking time
bomb of the, uh, of the warp core, um,

its, its containment field gradually
degrading, which is why Riker and Data

have to get to engineering to restore it.

And Troi on the bridge has to not
give up on the other half of the ship

that sensors say is, is, has no living
people against it, uh, left in it.

Ro is constantly badgering her
to do a saucer separation and get

the saucer away from the about
to explode, uh, uh, warp core.

But, uh, Troi does not give up.

She makes sure that, uh, there is power
to the control panels in engineering when

Riker and Data get there, and they manage
to save the day in the nick of time.

Rob: Yes.

But no, like no, uh, like it's a

Kevin: No Orions

Rob: nat-

Kevin: coming to take advantage of the

Rob: no Orions, no Klingon.

Again with the Klingons.

Yeah, it's like a natural occurrence
if you, if you were to say and how

Kevin: It is, and it has that,
like, there's several, like, acts

that start with an establishing
shot of the Enterprise with all

the lights off just dead in space,
and there's nothing around them.

It's, it's just, yeah,
claustrophobic in a way.

Rob: Amazing.

Amazing

Kevin: Yeah.

How about you?

Rob: I'm jumping to Deep Space Nine
and I was sort of like I was sold with

an asphyxiation problem and it didn't
kind of really work out that way,

but it's a similar thing to disaster.

Uh, it is, uh, Civil Defense,
which is Deep Space Nine,

season three, episode seven.

Uh, and this is the episode where,
um, the threat is, uh, a fail-safe

system within Terok Nor, um, that,
uh, O'Brien's trying to clear out

systems and files with, uh, Jake.

They're way down in the ore refinery
part of the, of the station, and

they try to get rid of one last damn
file that just can't be deleted.

I'd, I'd, I'd just move it into the, the
trash can symbol, but that didn't work.

Um, and that unleashes, uh, uh,
a fail-safe, uh, warning system

where we have a video of Gul
Dukat show up and thinking it's

Kevin: Strutting around Ops going,
"Ah, you seem to set off my trap."

Rob: Yes.

So, uh, the real, uh, Gul Dukat shows
up a bit later, but in the opening

section there's sort of like threats of-
there's a Bajoran uprising apparently.

So the video, uh, Dukat says, "We'll
give you eight minutes before," you

know, everything-- "They're all closed
in and, um, if you don't do this,

we'll sort of like put poisonous gas
into the, into the promenade system."

And, uh, then they, a laser
system is brought into ops and so

that starts shooting at people.

Dax burns her hands.

Um, Odo and Quark are locked
in the security section 'cause

there's a force field in there.

Um, and then finally, you know,
Gul Dukat shows up and he's all

very smug as he normally is.

Um, and then another failsafe
system comes in going, you know,

"This is a video for Gul Dukat.

"This means you're trying to
escape when you need to, you

know, die with your ship before it
blows up, uh, with your station."

Kevin: Ah,

Rob: then, yes, um, so it's
that whole thing of the

separate, uh, separate groups.

So O'Brien, Jake, and Sisko are trying to
get through, uh, the Jefferies tubes and

all that type of stuff to get stuff down.

There's, there's, you know,
venting gas that they have to

make their way through and Jake
goes in and gets, uh, O'Brien out.

Um, you know, Nerys has to work
with Dukat which is always a

fabulously tense situation.

Garak's there 'cause of course
he is 'cause he's amazing and he

says what everyone else is saying
going, "She doesn't like you, man.

"She's not attracted to you.

You're a married man, Dukat.

Stop flirting with her."
And he goes, "What?

What?" Um, and I think the best
part of this episode it, it's

really that consolidation of that
whole, uh, you know, hate-love

relationship between Odo and Quark.

There's a great- the great moment of sort
of like going, you know, "You're the" you

know, "uh, you're the most mischievous and
dangerous and, and, you know, underhanded,

you know, Ferengi I've ever met."

And he goes, "Oh, tell me.

Oh, you're just saying that." And
then when they release at the end

he goes, "Well, you said I was the
most devious." And going, "No, I

was just- I was li- I was lying.

There's so many more devious
people compared to you." He goes,

"Who?" He goes, "Well, the Grand
Nagus." He goes, "Well, that's fair

enough, but there's so much more.

"Your brother r- your brother Rom."
He goes, "My brother Rom?" So it's

another great thing of separating
our characters and- but these are the

characters that we kind of see together,
um, but how those relationships develop.

Great father-son stuff with Jake and,
uh, Sisko and that imminent threat of

the ship that they have made their home
is trying to destroy them which, um,

is, is something new that, you know,
taking over an alien station to make

it Federation, um, and make it a new
place but the systems left behind have,

uh, are, are trying to destroy them.

It's a, a fascinating thing to
see which we wouldn't normally

get in any other Star Trek.

Kevin: Yeah, it's baked into the
formula that the, this, you know, uh,

foreboding vacuum of space is right
outside the window at all times and,

uh, we live in a fragile bubble of
life support that could be taken away

or turned against us at any moment.

I love when they play with the, the
suddenly hostile, um, environment that

they take for granted at their peril.

Rob: Yeah.

It's, um, you know, there's a great
Doctor Who, ding, episode, Oxygen,

where the Doctor opens up by going,
you know, "Space will kill you. Space

is a horrible place," and that, you
know, you, there are thousands of

ways that you can die within space.

And, you know, this episode and disa-
and Disaster shows, and e- even if you're

not, you know, if you're n- if you're a
puppet or not, there's some, uh, serious

threats for you out there in, uh, you
know, the massive black that is space.

Kevin: Yeah.

Um, I'm, uh, I'm impressed we came up
with two similar, very similar episodes

here in Disaster and Civil Defense.

And, and they both are… In their
ways, they're both hijinks episodes.

They're both episodes where, like,
everything goes wrong and chaos ensues,

and our, our characters' professionalism
and troubleshooting in the face of

chaos is the, the nature of the story.

And I can sort of, um, concede the point
that both of these leave everyone changed.

It is a shared experience, and we have
all been through it and all overcome, and,

and new relationships and strengthened
relationships lay on the other side.

Whereas this week in Strange New
World, Spock's just a little more,

uh, mentally put together by the
end, and that's pretty much it.

Rob: And gets him and T'Pring
into a better place as

Kevin: Yeah, not quite as good a
place as he, uh, he dreamed, but,

uh, but, uh, slightly better.

Rob: Um, and yeah, and especially
with like Civil Defense, it's great

to s- uh, see e- even though the
threat is Cardassian, it also is great

that like, you know, um, Garak's in
trouble and Gul Dukat has hoisted

by his own petard is walking around
smugly not getting shot at, and then

he goes, "Oh no, I'm a threat too."

So I love, I love that
balance out as well.

Kevin: Hmm.

Ah, well, ah, what a
great batch of episodes.

Just fun to revisit all of this stuff.

Um, I, I can't wait to see where Strange
New Worlds is gonna take us next.

I am, I am hoping for, you know, just give
me a normal Star Trek episode, please.

Rob: Well, you, you have been saying
about the fact that maybe for the

second half, 'cause we're now, you
know, in the final, you know, stretch.

We've g- we've done the first half,
now we're into the second half, that

maybe the j- the genre bending stuff
eases off a bit and maybe we get a

Kevin: I hope it's true.

I, I am given to believe there is a soap
opera-ish episode coming down the line

at some point, but that's all I've heard.

And if, if the rest could just be maybe
a, "Ooh, new planet. Uh, what's going on

here?" sort of episode, that'd be nice.

Rob: Yeah.

Well, we have gone sort of like,
you know, a joy and, and fun

episode, serious episode, joy, fun.

So that was our joy, fun episode.

Maybe we get something a bit more
serious and dramatic next week.

Kevin: Maybe so.

La'an is no longer in a
relationship with Spock.

I, uh… W- we got to kinda see Spock
start to process that a little bit

this episode, and I, I'm curious to
see what La'an does now on her own.

Rob: She is the main journey this season.

I think with everything's coming
out, that seems to be our main focus.

So, um, whether her story is coming to
a close early or whether we get to a

resolution at the end of this season,
then directs us into, uh, season five.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, I'm fascinated
to see where they go.

Kevin: All right.

Well, uh, it, it'll only
come faster if we clock off.

Rob: And, uh, in tribute of, uh,
the Jim Henson Creature Shop, I

will end the episode as they do
with every Muppet Show episode.

We'll see you next week on Subspace Radio!