Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Hello and welcome back to Subspace Radio.

We are reaching the end game of Star
Trek: Starfleet Academy and we here at

Subspace Radio are here to talk about it.

I'm Rob,

I'm Kevin,

and we are looking at
episode nine of season one of

Starfleet Academy: 300th Night.

It's almost over the, the year is almost
over the, the season's almost over.

I saw some people online going, that
was a heck of a season cliffhanger,

and they were delighted to hear that
there was still one more episode.

Still one more to go.

Still one more to go.

A lot was done in a, in a short
amount of time and the looming

threat of our overarching villain
was present, even though he was not.

He was not.

Uh, Lura Thok was not also
only mentioned in dialogue.

So yeah, there, I mean the entire
bridge crew was missing as well.

Uh, that was the biggest thing for me.

We went to such great pains to
introduce them by name in the pilot,

and it was like, yeah, here's uh,
Lieutenant Ya and Enson Weldu.

They will, uh, never be seen again.

Never again.

Yeah.

And the, the, the thing for me was, it
was the second last episode and it was a

very, like, physically contained episode.

There was very few, there was like the,
the, the set of the planet they went

to, Ukeck, and there was just on the
bridge, but it felt very contained.

We had a lot of mentions of characters
who've been in, involved in, so

that was, Lura was a big one.

She's been missing quite a few episodes.

Like we didn't

Yeah, I feel like she was only
available for the first half the

season or something, and they're
just keeping her alive in dialogue

and, and appearances on the comm.

She was very heavy in the first section,
then she sort of like handed the baton to

her lover and then it was taken over by

And boys Tig taking it.

Oh, Tig is doing, uh, they have
found how to use Jett Reno.

I feel like just in the past few
episodes, she is still the same character,

but the gravitas has appeared and I
think back to the times where she was

like wandering around engineering.

In Discovery and no one was
quite sure what her job was

other than eating licorice.

And back then it wasn't quite working, and
you could see what they were going for.

They were kind of going for
a, a, Dr. McCoy Scotty hybrid.

What if the grumpy officer on
the ship was the chief engineer?

And they finally found it.

It is, it is working so well.

Uh, love Jett Reno is, is skyrocketing
to the top of my favorite characters.

Yes.

Yeah, they have definitely done
Tig a service they have, um, given

her the right platform within Star
Trek for her character to shine.

Um, and just to have a bridge crew of
Holly Hunter, Tig and Robert Picardo,

I'm there, well, that is awesome on
whatever level you are playing at.

Yeah.

Like it, it felt like they could
spend a bit of money on a bunch

of small characters or a lot of
money on their three mains, and

they went the second option.

But yeah, for me it felt like they
were talking a lot about how widespread

this whole, um, threat was, but
it was very contained to, it was a

very human, self-contained story.

So lot of explaining of stuff
that was happening outside.

We didn't see a lot of it.

Um, and so that was very
interesting as an episode.

It

Oh yeah, like the landing on
Betazed was only talked about it

Only talked about, we only see
screen representations of what

these kind of, um, mines can do.

Um, we had a little bit of a space
battle when, um, uh, some of the ships

came in and attacked, uh, the Athena.

Um, but it was very short.

It was very much, they were, I don't
wanna say they were holding back

the money for the last episode, but
it did feel very much a case of it

wasn't this big bombastic two-parter.

I feel like what they did was
done at a very high quality.

I mean, going back to the on the
bridge I mentioned, it was, they,

they, they did a lot with a little
rather than a little with a lot.

Uh, so yeah, I agree that everything
that was there was really, uh,

yeah, care, carefully produced
in high quality in general.

I'd say the, the, the one exception
I would make is those last shots

zooming out of the, to give us
the sense of the mines in space.

The scale is way off there.

Like if it is, if it is enclosing
a big chunk of, uh, like the

entire Federation of Planets, a big
chunk of the alpha beta quadrants.

The curvature should not be visible.

You should never see more than
one mine on screen at a time.

But they had like a web of them at that,
at, at that distance from each other.

I feel like you would need trillions,
if not quadrillions of mines to

enclose the Federation and, and you
would never see the curvature of

that, that, uh, screen in real life.

So, uh, yeah.

I, I, I feel like we, we have to
take those final shots as, um,

illustrative rather than literal.

Yes.

And a, and a convenient nebula right
next to where they wanted to be.

Oh, I love a hide in the nebula.

That's good.

Yes.

But the positioning of it was like,
I'm there going hide near that nebula.

I went, okay.

So it would be, you know, you
know, a couple of light years

And the red wall is
going right through it.

With

Yeah, go right,

being nestled in,

this is right around,
right next to that thing.

It's a shame 'cause the
visuals are beautiful.

Someone obviously put a lot of care
and love into the appearance of

those shots, but the, the science,
the, the like attention to, uh.

verisimilitude was lacking and, and that's
something that I feel like happens a

bit in modern Star Trek at the moment,
that they go to a lot of trouble and

fail to avoid some basic mistakes.

Yes.

Um, so yeah, we, we, we
hit the ground running.

We went straight into our discussions.

We are here, as always, to talk
about the most recent of Star Trek,

and then something that connects,
uh, all those little pieces

Connects by disconnecting,
if you will, Rob.

That's right.

Oh, look at that.

Set 'em up and knock 'em down.

We're gonna be talking saucer
separations in the second half

Shish separations.

Spectacular shish separations.

So, yes, there's a key moment in this
episode where of course, uh, Ake needs

to make the decision of disconnecting
the saucer from the atrium section

of the ship, um, to escape and flee.

Um.

That is, uh, sent us spiraling down
another, uh, saucer separation section.

Another transwarp conduit.

Yes.

Um, but the big focus of this episode,
let's get back to the, the thrust of

300th Night, um, was the re uh, the
final return, uh, finally the return

of, um, uh, Caleb's mom has finally
shown up, and I've gotta admit their

reconnection was done really, really well.

There was a beautiful moment.

Those, yeah, they took a long
beat and I was, as I have been in

recent episodes when they, when
everything stops and we just let two

characters be together for 30 seconds.

It's so satisfying and
it was done well here

Really well and like

shot that that covered hallway with
the slatted windows along the side, it

was used in two or three places in this
episode, and redressed with different

vendors in it and stuff, but having
it completely empty here with just

the wet floor and the light shine, the
back light shining through, it was ugh.

Wonderful, wonderful shots
for that, that reunion.

And like for, for, for two actors who
need to give this impression of having

known each other their entire lives,
losing almost two decades of time

together, uh, it's a great, great craft
and especially for our young Caleb Mir.

Acted, beautifully written.

The, the, Where did you go, Mama, mama.

It's like they both regressed to the
moment they last saw each other they

would've said then, what was the
last thing I couldn't say to you?

And that's the first thing
they said to each other.

Tatiana Maslany is an Emmy
award-winning actress.

She's an absolute, uh,
powerhouse of a performer.

But, um, uh, our young, uh, Caleb Mir,
having to step up with someone at that

level of performing skill, um, and
match them, I was thoroughly impressed.

And all his swagger, all his, um, you
know, hutzpah and anything like that

that we've seen all through the season,
which can be a little bit grating, but

very much in the style of what, uh,
this show is to have that scene done

Yeah.

Swagger with insecurity behind it.

Yeah.

And all that swagger, all that swagger
leaving and just, just this connection

happening was, um, beautiful stuff.

Mm.

Uh, enjoyed the shuttle theft.

Love a good, love, a good
ship theft in Star Trek.

Uh, this, this shuttle was established
a couple of episodes earlier when,

uh, Ake and the Doctor took, uh,
SAM back to her home world of Kasq.

This was the warp shuttle that they took.

So it was established that the Athena
has a shuttle that is warp capable.

Is a very, it's a very spacious one.

Like there's like, like the

like this, this shuttle you stand
up in, that's a big open space, was

kind of established in Discovery,
and they've been reusing that

same set of windows ever since.

Yes.

Um, but like the ones that we are
used to from the nineties, which are

nice, snug little, uh uh, Runabouts.

This one is quite, with not much in
it, it's just a large empty space.

And there go put a desk
in there or something.

Could just have in the middle.

Um, but yeah, uh, it just the
escalation of, uh, the snowballing

effect of and here's, yeah, and here's
every ca Here's Genesis coming in.

Here's SAM coming in.

Yeah.

Darem coming in drunk.

We lack a lot of enzymes!

Bananas, alcohol.

He was funny, this episode.

I liked it.

He was very good.

The glitter vomit worked for me,
so, uh, like the, I think I didn't

like it earlier in the season, but
that was a setup for this, where he

goes, It is all over my trousers,
he says in a weird French accent.

It just like wasn't this big
explosion, like when it was

first shown in slow motion.

This one just like dribbled

drunk person spew.

They're not quite aware
of what's happening.

Yes.

Um, but yeah.

Uh, very good stuff like
tensions building up.

Um, oh yeah.

We didn't even talk like SAM is back
and we finally got to see the new

Sam with such short amount of time.

heard her called and yeah, seeing,
seeing her reflective, I, I

was going through my other me's
memories and I didn't respect her.

And Caleb, even in a low
moment, Caleb talking her up.

So good.

I, you know, it turns out I'm just
a sucker for the YA stuff, Rob.

Feed it to me with a spoon.

Well, we can start up a, uh, Hunger
Games podcast now, and we can go

the t Twilight novels as well.

Oh, God, I can't believe I just said that.

Um, yeah, I'm very interested to see
like, uh, the tension between Genesis

and SAM has come out of the blue, but
obviously that's what the, one of the,

the victims of a 10 episode season.

Um, clearly there's stuff going on
there that we have to sort of like

catch up with, um, with this new SAM.

but we haven't seen New SAM, so
it's just a case of hello New SAM.

All right, so you've got all
these issues and problems in

SAM in general seems to be reacting
negatively to anyone, um, implying she's

the same person and, like the, You don't
know me, you don't know anything about me.

I think Genesis has just been in
the firing line, but I think she's

giving a bit of that to everyone.

Yes.

But, um, great stuff from our, uh,
distance and emotional, uh, I isolation

with the Doctor and SAM to begin with.

Now it's, you know, it's
daddy, it's, it's, it's

I know his passwords.

I use them to steal shuttles.

Yeah.

And just how, you know, how relieved
he was when they finally reconnected.

That type of stuff was, uh, great.

A lot of, you know, reunions
in this episode of, you know,

parents with their, with their
children, which was great to see.

Tarima and Jay-Den being left
on the sidelines was a bit of a

shame, but worth it for the joke
of Well, that's a design flaw!

Yeah.

I'm curious to see how all of these
characters are gonna be used in episode

10 because there did feel like a certain
amount of, let's split our people up,

let's put them in particular places,
that has not quite paid off yet.

I mean, Tarima and Jay-Den are around.

They are, they have been dismissed
to the Captain's quarters.

What's gonna hap, like,
what are they going to do?

I feel like there is a reason they're
in that room for plot purposes.

Uh.

Um, we've been a little underwhelmed
recently by, uh, well, I, I

have of Tarima's stuff, but she
was handled really well today.

Uh, with this episode.

She was written really

Uh, turbo lift ride?

Turbolift ride, the whole,
you've seen me naked and you've

seen me kill a whole heap of

That was a great line.

It was a very Buffy line, I felt like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, and it's a, it's a horrible
movie and it's one of my favorite

characters, the Green Lantern film.

Um, there's a great moment in the Green
Lanter film where you've got Hal Jordan

played by, um, uh, Ryan Reynolds and,
uh, Carol Ferris, played by Blake Lively.

That's the film that got him together.

Ooh, gossip.

Um, but like he's wearing a
mask to pretend that he's a

different character and, um.

They've had a relationship before,
and so he's in disguise and at

the end she goes, of course I know
it's you, Hal, I've seen you naked.

Okay.

you think a little bit of
material covering your eyes

is going to hide who you are.

Oh no.

50 years of superhero
lore, crumbles like that.

Yeah, didn't make much of an
impact that film, but yeah, I

love that type of genuine writing
about connections and the history

Naming the weird thing is fun.

Yeah.

And his little speech towards her was a,
was a, a nicely written, um, tribute to

her and it's like him letting go of all
his shmuckiness and his, uh, you know,

um, yeah, difficultness as a human being.

He just like, spoke to her truthfully.

Was a,

the goodbye in the corridor
where he says she's music.

That part.

That part was really good.

Really like not schmaltzy at all.

It was a really nice, heartfelt
moment and beautifully written.

Yeah, you're music is, is great.

Several points.

This episode, uh, the actor playing
Caleb beer was given a big ask and

really rose to the occasion when
he gets the, when he gets finally

access to his mother's messages.

Cries, oh yeah, just

Two years worth of

four big, big moments for that
character here, like being emotionally

shattered for one reason or another.

And, uh, he pulls it off every time.

Even the breakup scene in, on, uh,
Ukeck, where he's like, where he's

saying ugly things to his friends to make
them go away, is beautifully handled.

Like it's an awkward scene, but
it's supposed to feel awkward.

He's, he is forcing it, and
that's why it feels forced.

I, I love the balance they struck there.

Yeah.

And how all three characters responded.

SAM, getting back to a little bit
of great work from the SAM actor as

well, 'cause we were talking about it.

How are they gonna handle playing SAM
one way and now SAM a different way?

Yeah, she's playing
different but the same.

It's so good to

Very good work.

It's very, very good work.

It's good Star Trek.

It's good acting, it's good
writing, it's good direction.

So, um.

I can't believe this show is at risk of
not coming back after a second season.

This is, this is not only the best
Star Trek we have seen in since the

new era has come back with Discovery.

This might be the best
Star Trek I've ever seen.

Oh wow.

I, I think it is just, it is so
well handled, so well written, so

well acted, and so well produced.

It has everything.

Whereas I feel like at one time or
another we have always had to apologize

for some aspect of what's on our
screen or, and look past it as fans.

It is just so good right now.

Great.

Yes, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm enjoying
it far more than I thought I would.

Um, uh, I particularly liked, uh, you
know, the, after the moment of pushing

his friends away so they can escape,
then them being caught and both him e

even with the history of his mom with
Federation, the fact that he goes back,

he says, sorry mom, I've gotta do this.

I, they're my friends.

They're, you know, uh, they are from
Starfleet, but I am as well and stuff.

And he goes back.

To that moment where they both.

Trying to distract them using
all their years of hustle and

con artists and how to survive.

Like she mom, mom's playing her
cards and playing his cards.

And so they're both working together to,

Are you two working together?

Nope.

No, we're not.

Definitely not.

Dunno, this person, dunno, this
person got this thing here.

And then Nus Brakka's hench, uh, woman
says to, Anisha, hang on, I know you.

And then the, the phasers come out.

There is that clipped
line, just there to go.

Hang on.

was in the inner circle.

There something going on here
that we still don't know.

I think that's the last shoe to drop in
next episode is like exactly what was

Anisha Amir's role with the Venari Ral?

Does it have something to do
with these trillions of minues

encircling Federation space?

Uh, is is she going to be
able to redeem herself?

Is she gonna have to sacrifice

as herself.

Yeah, that's the, the, the
big after saucer separation,

the big S word is sacrifice?

Mm.

Um.

But yeah, and she did a very cool,
like she had her arms crossed

down and the gun was there and
she just did the up to shoot them.

Just very cool.

Fun stuff.

Yeah.

Well, I'm not sure there's
much else to say about this

episode other than I loved it.

Well, let's focus on what this whole
episode is a focus on, to sacrifice

the atrium so that they can escape.

Uh, the saucer is separated from
the Athena, which leads us down the

path of what other moments have the,
uh, saucers been separated, uh, for

particular reasons within Star Trek.

Now, obviously we only have a very few
number of ships that do have the capacity

to separate into two separate sections.

It's implied at different times that many
Starfleet ships have that capability, but

it was only ever seen by my favorite ship.

The Enterprise D.

And used quite, you know, quite sparingly.

Like when we picked this as a topic,
I went, well, there's gonna be just

so many episodes for us to pull from.

So, but it's quite, you know,
apart from a movie, there's only

about like three or four episodes
in, in, in TNG for us to focus on.

So I'll be

Yeah.

I counted three.

Yeah, be very intrigued,

movie.

So we get to go through all of them today.

And, uh, I love a, I love an opportunity
to go back to the pilot episode.

Uh, so let's start with Star
Trek: The Next Generation

Encounter at Farpoint.

at Farpoint.

Yeah, they had pull
out all their big guns.

Yeah, which the saucer separation seems to
have been an element added to this story

when famously it was expanded from a one
hour pilot to a two hour pilot movie.

That whole framing narrative with Q
was added on to the story of Farpoint

Station and the, uh, the space
jellyfish that are hidden there.

We love our space jellyfish.

And, uh, I don't know if you rewatched,
uh, Encounter at Faroint like I did this

week, Rob, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's,

It's rough.

well it is definitely rough.

It is also like the saucer separation
is very, um, it's flaming hoop they jump

through to make us go ooh and ah, about
the ship, but it does not serve much

purpose other than that, in this story.

I didn't go back and watch it 'cause
I do remember, you know, in my most

recent rewatch of it, whether it was
a year or two ago when I was trying

to do, okay, let's do TNG from start
to finish, and I got a couple of

episodes into season one, I went, oh no.

Um, but I do remember it
not being as impressive.

So the ones that I did find and they
had a purpose, the later ones that I

found, I went, okay, that makes sense.

I can see why they've got that here.

But this one is just a case of
look what we can do and then

move on to the next stuff.

Yeah, it's a bit of flare and, and
it's, I'm a little nostalgic about it

because for the, because you know, I'm
a, I'm a fan of Starships and this,

this hearkens back to a time when

I can see them in the back.

Look those.

Look at those gorgeous things.

I should have my Enterprise D in
front of me for illustrative purposes.

But, uh, yeah, it hearkens back to a
time where when I felt like that, when

Star Trek wanted to dazzle us, they
would make the show about the ship.

Like some of those movies, like The
Motion Picture and, and Star Trek

II, where there's, there's long,
adoring shots of approaching the

ship and seeing it from many angles.

Definitely in The Motion Picture.

Yeah.

That is just a whole, um, that is,
that is, that is spaceship porn

Yeah.

I feel like Roddenberry for Encounter
at Farpoint did the same thing of

like when he was given a bunch of
money, what am I gonna do with it?

Do I hire more expensive actors?

No.

We are going to take a good, hard look
at the ship and get everyone excited

about its capabilities and here's a
secret thing it can do that no Enterprise

has ever been able to do before.

The, the saucer separation was
in the writer's guide for the

original series as something the
original Enterprise could do.

It's mentioned in a couple of episodes
where Kirk, like in a, in a moment of

desperation suggests blowing the nacelles
or taking the saucer out of, of the

area and they never end up doing it.

But some of the kind of, you know,
fan blueprints that were going at

the time, locked onto those lines
of dialogue and showed the fact that

there was a separation capability.

Matt Jeffries famously drew kind of, um,
landing strut, uh, portholes on the bottom

side of the saucer in the original series.

So there was the thought that the saucer
would be a, a self-contained ship that

could land on a planet at at a point.

And it feels like that was something that
was, that was left undone, that like we

could never do it back then because we
didn't have the money or the technology.

It's time for The Next Generation.

What is on my to-do list?

I'm gonna make this ship separate.

And we're gonna do it in the very
first episode so that I can spend the

pilot money to build the model that
can separate, and that's what they did.

They built that, that first six
foot model that ILM built for Star

Trek: The Next Generation, the
model was able to separate in two.

And so what we see in that is actually
the, like, there's no camera trickery.

There's no, they built a second model
just for the, for the separated state.

The model they were shooting with
for the first season or of the next

generation was a separat able model.

Uh, but it was such a pain in the butt
to do, Rob, they only shot like two

shots of it separating, and they had
several shots in the bank of the two

sections flying, or really just the
star drive section flying on its own.

And they reused those in the second
episode where this happened, which

is episode 21, the Arsenal of

Arsenal of Freedom, that's what I watched.

Yeah.

Cool.

Oh, uh, you probably would've
seen this one before 'cause

it's a Tasha Yar episode.

It is a Tasha Yar episode.

It's her last, um, full episode
before, uh, the episode that shall

not be named or ever watched again.

Um, uh, but I ha I had not seen it.

I would've remembered, uh, Vincent,
uh, Schiavelli uh, his appearance.

The wonderful Vince Schiavelli
from, uh, from Ghost, from

Death to Smooch, uh, from, uh,

That's right.

My ship is a Drake.

Yeah.

Yes, that's right.

And the, uh, the video recording, um,

Oh, that one.

Sorry.

No, I thought you meant Captain Rice,

ah, no, no.

Yeah, I was talking of the wonderful,
uh, the wonderful salesman.

Yeah.

Who's from One Flew Over Cuckoo's Nest.

Yes.

I have seen the actor
who played Rice as well.

I've seen him in some stuff as well.

Um, but that set, holy moly.

The underground cave.

No, no.

The underground cave was quite nice.

No, the, the surface, which
was literally, you could see

Move yukkas around!

We need another angle.

I.

Put more smoke in.

Put more smoke.

Birds, are there any more birds
of paradise in California?

We need all of the birds of paradise.

Can we at let, do we have any bamboo?

Any bamboo at all?

We have five long pieces of bamboo.

Just get it out.

It was, I'm there going, that was, yeah.

It was such a studio.

It was so studio, it didn't

It was pretty cheesy.

So hard to see.

And they're just wandering around.

Ah, we'll just put some
dry ice on the floor.

That'll, that'll cover up any, uh, joins
between the, the, the studio floor.

Um, but yes, ship's gone missing.

They, uh, the Enterprise
are there to check it out.

Um,

Minos.

Minos, uh, that there's pretty much
wiped themself out of what we've heard.

Um, this video

is the planet that gets a name
check in Star Trek: Section 31.

By the way,

ah, well I'm, that's a reason
why I don't remember that.

the Arms Merchants of Minos.

Yeah.

But, um, uh, Picard is a little
bit slow on the uptake here.

Where, you know, the salesman keeps
on talking and it has to be Data after

longer than it should have been going.

I don't think he can hear you, captain.

I think it's a, it's a,
it's a recording, captain.

Captain.

Um, I'm just gonna let
you give you a heads up.

You're

The recording is interactive
later, in Picard's defense

is later on, but at that
particular point, it is just

going, he's not responding to me.

Why isn't It's a frigging recording.

Okay.

It's like the, the old gag I used
to play with when you'd leave

an answering machine message.

Hi, how you going?

Nah, just a joke.

I'm not really here.

I found it really strange, the
line where he goes the, the

they, they mess up on purpose.

The old saying and they go, Remember,
the bird that's early gets worms?

I'm not sure what they were
trying to do with that.

It was so weird.

Yeah, very, very weird.

Trying to give an impression
of you'll die so you'll have

worms eating you but didn't make

Um, so yes, uh, they send a small team
down just because there's so much threat.

If they lose three, then it's
not as much as losing the

entire, that's how math works.

So ya

Next Gen was very much about
captains not beaming down.

The

Captain's, not captain is on the ship.

Send Riker, send Yar, send Data.

Um, they come across, uh.

The captain of the Drake who they,
you know, we established early on,

we went to the academy together.

We hear that all the time in Star Trek.

How do you know this person?

We went to the academy together.

Um, but there's something odd about him.

Clearly it's a recording.

They've taken the form of, uh,
the captain and, uh, to find out

as much information as they can.

Um, uh, Beverly Crusher and
the Captain finally, um.

They beam down when Riker is
caught in the stasis field.

caught in the stasis field
and they fall down a big hole.

Um,

falling, like the, the, the
scene where they come through

the brushes and then, and then,
uh, Gates has to like go, oh, no.

She like chucks her, her equipment
ahead of her to try and stop

her fall, and then forward when
Picard runs into her from behind.

All of that business was fun.

So, so Picard is fine, but
Beverly Crusher is on the point of

Well, Beverly Crusher
broke his fall clearly.

That's right.

Clearly, clearly she just as always
putting herself ahead just to,

that Picard gets out scot free.

How many times has Gates McFadden
done that for Patrick Stewart?

Um,

Some like vulnerability and putting,
putting Picard and crusher together

in a, in a sensitive moment.

I, really early stuff that, that started
building that relationship up, I thought.

And the, the, the rigid coolness
of Picard that we get in season

one is kind of melted here a bit.

Stay awake, stay awake.

Talk to me about this.

Tell me about this, tell me about that.

Um, and so now we have both
captains, captain and the first

officer on the i on the planet.

And so therefore, Geordi is put in charge.

And obviously because I haven't been
watching season one, there's this tension

going on with the chief of engineer.

So Geordi isn't even head
of engineering in this part.

He's red,

this one of the chief engineers
of the week from the originals,

from from season one.

We never see this guy before or

Because it looks like here

is a one episode chief engineer.

He comes in and they've got,
oh, they've got a history.

Oh, they don't like each other.

I'm going, well, I've
missed an episode or two.

Nope.

It's just out of the blue.

I don't like you.

I don't like you, visor boy.

Yeah.

Um, so Geordi's

It, remi, you remember dis when Discovery
didn't have a chief engineer right away.

The same thing.

How do you put an Enterprise in space
and not give it a chief engineer?

Uh, they didn't like
the whole first season.

It was like engineering will be a
small, small thing and they, they

hired a new day player every time they
needed to call down to engineering.

So did they do an episode in season
two where they like made Geordi into

the chief of engineering or did they

I feel like it just
happened in season two.

Season two starts,
Geordi's in engineering.

It's not even commented

He does.

He's not even, he's red anymore.

He's straight back in the,

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

so

has passed.

A promotion has occurred.

Yeah.

So yes.

So all this stuff is going on.

They're being attacked, uh,
on, on the, uh, out in space.

Um, we have separation from our captain
and our, the ship needing to be separated

because the attacking is too much.

So, um, Geordi concedes and goes,
we'll take the lower section, uh,

chief of engineering, you take the
sourcer section and go find help.

And so we see the, uh, the secondary
bridge unit, very, very, uh,

The Battle Bridge.

Yeah, the battle

And this was one of the reasons that
we didn't see saucer separation more.

They did have the model, they did
have the shots that they could reuse.

As long as they were a few episodes
apart, no one would really realize

that we were seeing the exact same two
effects shots of the saucer separating.

They could have gotten away with
that, but what really killed them

was the expense of standing up the
battle bridge set whenever they

of course.

the saucer separation.

Uh, that's from my reading, the, the
main reason it wasn't done more often.

It's just to build that particular
set, and it wasn't every week, so it's

just an expensive duty to get it up.

Um.

Yeah, it reminded me a lot of, you know,
from that television of the eighties

especially, I guess, 'cause that was
my informative time in animated shows

or television shows where they'd reuse
the same footage, just not to the same

extent here in Star Trek, obviously,
because they only used it so sparingly.

But we've got these sourcer shots.

So let's go back and use that
exact same shot again and

again to show the separation.

Like in animated shows, whenever a
character transforms into their particular

suit, they don't do a new one every time.

They don't need to.

They just go through the
exact same action, the exact

same footage that they have.

And same as some of the TV shows of
the eighties where they cut corners.

They go, okay, we've got a chase scene.

Let's use some footage of a chase
scene we've used from previous

episodes, they just happen to
be driving the exact same cars.

Yeah, and, and the, I guess I,
I enjoyed the function of the,

the separating the, the saucer.

Like it did what it was supposed to.

It sold for me the size of the ship,
the fact that there are families

aboard and the fact that they
would have a plan for protecting

those families when things got hot.

Yes.

But it was, uh, it was done
lavishly, I would say, ish for

the time in Encounter at Farpoint.

It was done somewhat perfunctorily
here, and then the third time we

saw it in The Best of Both Worlds.

two.

It, uh, it takes like three seconds.

They're like auto-sep sequence.

There's one shot of it separating from
below, again, reused from Encounter at

Farpoint, and then the separation is done.

I think this was the, um, the most
effective use of the separation to

get, you know, to change it from just
being one point of attack against

the Borg cube to being, now we split
their focus and both are powered up,

so using it as a tactical maneuver

And the saucer's going to be overlooked
because it's the low threat vehicle.

And so they'll launch the shuttle from
that one behind a, a smoke screen.

Yeah, it's good.

And we have Riker on one ship and we have,
you know, uh, Shelby on the other one.

So they're both showing off
their, their skills and talent.

And Shelby's quite
ambitious as we all know.

So this is the experience they need
to get to add to their, um, already

growing, um, uh, ambitious streak.

They famously had to pull the original
six foot model of the Enterprise D

out of mothballs for this episode.

The,

used since season one.

Hadn't been used in season one,
but they, they needed some more

shots in space of the two separated
sections for that battle sequence.

There was no other way to get them
at the time than to pull out the old,

large ship and, uh, rig it back up
and, and get some new shots of it.

And apparently the, the crew
said, oh, yes, we remember why we

don't like using this model now.

It is really hard to work with.

It was massive.

Huge, huge.

They said it took four to six people just
to lift it off its rig to reposition it

That's massive.

That insane.

Insane.

Especially, you know, the
good old days of model work.

Um, now it's all CGI stuff.

But yes, that means that the smaller,
uh, model that was used for the

rest of the series did not separate.

That's why we did not see any
more saucer separations after

this in the era of models.

Not until Star Trek Generations, which is
the first appearance of a CG Enterprise D.

That's right, that's right.

And one of the most impressive, uh,
practical sequences put on, uh, on, on

screen in any attempt of the, the saucer
section crash landing on the planet.

I remember they released, um, you
know, as part of advertisement

they released, like connected with
newspapers, they'd release of of VHS,

making of, sneak peak of generations.

And I remember having that and the
big focus of that video was the source

of section crash landing and how

just can't, Star Trek, cannot resist,
like a Star Trek movie can't help

itself but to show off ahead of time
these very, very significant sequences

of the Enterprise being destroyed.

We had it in Star Trek III.

The, the, the trailers gave away
the destruction of the Enterprise.

We had it here again in Generations.

It's just, uh, man, imagine if
we had not known that was coming.

I would've been sitting in
that theater passing out with,

with, uh, the shock of it.

That's your ship.

That's your ship, gone for good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, but yes, it, it's such
an impressive sequence.

The, the model size, the, the miniature
versions of the planet, the trees, the

hills, all that have to be constructed,
shot from different angles, shot at

different speeds so they can then,
when they're replay it, they play

it at normal speed, so therefore
it looks slower therefore gives the

sense of scale and weight and size.

Um.

You know, just have apart
from the line you don't like,

but I kind of like, Oh shit.

Um, but having Riker there, grabbing
home and go all hands, brace for

Uh, so good.

When Jonathan Freaks barks out,
something like that, or fire

everything, you just go, oh, Frakes,
you get me right in the feels.

Troi being sent to the, to the Conn for
the, the, um, for the action is as well.

Yeah, it's, uh,

This is a great movie, if not for
the last 15 minutes of the Nexus

stuff and Kirk coming back and the
fight on the catwalks on the, on the,

on the mountain, on Veridian III.

Like that stuff, it was completely
reshot, they knew it wasn't working.

They had a second go at shooting
that ending of the movie.

And it's still, feels cheap.

It feels, um, like it, it, it is not
the climax that this movie needs.

Everything before it is so much
stronger, like, as I was rewatching

this movie yesterday, I was like,
this is a nine, this is nine, this

is 10, this is nine, this is a 10.

And then that last 15 minutes, it
drops to fives and sixes in terms of

how much emotional impact, how much
production value there is, uh, going in.

And so, yeah, I, uh, basically from
the very start with the stuff on

the Enterprise B right up to the
crash, the, the, the, as soon as the

shutter, the, as soon as the saucer
settles into its final position and

it fades to black, just before we cut
to the Nexus with Picard, I feel like

that is a perfect Star Trek movie.

And even the stuff in the Nexus with
Guinan is like, it's well acted, it's well

produced, it's enjoyable, but it is a,
it is a, a step down from, from the wows

of the, of everything up to that point.

There's a lot of big stuff like the,
the, um, the, the mapping room, which is

Yeah.

cartography.

This is so, is so beautifully
captured and the the weight of

it by spina and about how many
billions of people will be killed.

Yeah, it, and every one of those scenes,
stellar cartography is a great example.

It is not just a scene about
exposition and, and you know,

laying out the, this plot on a map.

It is also a scene about Data wrestling
with his emotion, motion and trying to

quit halfway through that scene, and
Picard say, you are a Starfleet officer

and I require you to do your duty.

And he sits him back down and so,
throughout this movie up, uh, up until

that point that I mentioned, every
single scene serves both of these

functions of like moving the plot forward
and moving the characters forward.

Balance that they struck
between those two things is so

present throughout this movie.

I feel like I'm both watching the
most lavish Star Trek movie I've

ever seen up until that point, and
the best episode of the week of Star

Trek: The Next Generation where our
characters get to be with each other.

Both of those things
are happening at once.

It definitely does feel at, for me
at least, it does feel like, um,

where Insurrection felt like a, a, a
big budget, um, tele movie episode.

There are elements of
Generations that feels like that.

It feels that the stakes are from
a television point of view, um,

but it doesn't take away from it.

Like the opening on a tall ship
and everyone in Napoleonic era

Yeah, there's TV, there's TV episode
hijinks, but it's additive to the very

solid movie that is also on screen,
whereas I feel like that second element

was less present in Insurrection.

Yes, very much so.

Very so.

Um, yeah, the time they take for the
crash, like you shoot, they shoot it

from every angle and see every angle
and how long it takes to, to stop.

The pacing that was so deliberate.

They, once they're on the ground,
they're like, it's not over.

We are moving forward.

And there are long shots of them just
sitting in their seats, um, vibrating

as camera zooms into a character's
face and it's like an earthquake.

They're riding out an earthquake.

It's

And the, and the mesh nets sort
of come up as well to, yeah.

All that type of stuff.

The detail, the reality, the
verisimilitude, as it were, of

what is on that ship to stop
these type of things happening.

Those type of moments coming up where
it's not just an episode that that's

where it goes beyond being a TV episode.

They go, this is a movie.

We have that money to go into that
detail to show how the defense systems

lock in or the safety protocols kick in
to make this living, breathing saucer

section feel like we have contingency
plans put in there to save people

who might be thrown about and stuff.

Going back to the separation itself,
they did bring more detail as well.

Like I mentioned, this is a CG Enterprise
for the first time and say that they were

able to do more detailed shots than they
have done in the past, more flexibly.

The moment of separation, if you go back
and watch it, there's a bunch of like

glittery particles that fly out the crack
between the ships, and they said that was

inspired by what NASA said they observed
when they were un docking ships in orbit.

That, that is a thing that happens is
when they split them up there's like ice

crystals or whatever, from the atmosphere
that was between the ships that like

escapes and flies out in every direction.

And they did that same thing here.

That just brings it, just that
little hint of that, that kiss of

reality that wasn't present before.

That balance of CGI and practical effects.

So you've got all CGI and, but that,
that saucer section is just, I dunno

if it's is the original giant model

No, they built a new, they built a
new saucer specifically for the crash.

A smaller one, I believe.

It's still pretty big.

I've seen shots of it.

It has toured that, that saucer model.

It is just the saucer, but it is
recognizable because it has streaks of,

um, of, uh, burn marks on the leading
edge from the atmospheric reentry.

And yeah, it was built and, and painted
specifically just for the crash.

And it is uh, something that they have,
they have toured around, you know,

museum exhibits and things like that.

The, the.

Incredible.

see shots online of the saucer and
it's, it's about the size of a person.

So yeah, I'd say from, from long, from
edge to edge, the long way, it is about

six foot across that, that, uh, Yeah.

Marvelous.

Yeah.

Well, anything else to say
about saucer separations,

Um, look, when.

It's a tricky thing to get right and you
can see why it was used so sparingly, is

because it's a great idea and it could,
but it could be that thing where it's

pulled out at the end of an episode to
like defeat the big boss or something.

It could become quite um, uh, commonplace.

So the mere fact that it was only
used so sparingly for financial

reasons, obviously, it's always
the cool reality of money.

Um, it makes it

happened two or three times a
season throughout the series,

I think we might not be sitting
here doing an episode about it.

Exactly.

And especially because, you know,
out of the four times it was done,

only two times really were effective,
um, and actually was beneficial for

the plot and pushed it forward and
did something interesting with it.

Um, as opposed to just going,
okay, well, we'll separate and

one part goes somewhere else.

Well, how can this be used?

The Encounter at Farpoint
one was especially glaring.

Picard, like they, they're like,
they've just met Q. The ship

arrives at Farpoint in two pieces,
and Riker as his first test of

that's right.

To do manual docking.

Yeah.

And the manual docking, I think,
is probably the nicest part

of the whole thing is, it's
at least a character moment.

And there, there is gravitas
and, and stakes to it.

But yeah, uh, The Arsenal of Freedom
feels like the, the, stereotypical when

they imagined that if we're gonna have
families on board this ship, we're gonna

have to send them to safety now and then.

And this was the only now
that we got of that happening.

The Best of Both Worlds
was a, uh, a battle tactic.

So it, the fact that it was not used
conventionally was kind of the point.

And I really like

Generations was kind of, let's use
the saucer as a, as a life boat.

Yes.

I enjoyed all of the stuff of the
families rushing through and the

announcement over the, over the intercom,
starship separation in four minutes.

And, uh, the kids being lost at the
corner and Geordi picking them up

and, and rushing them off and one
of them drops their teddy bear.

Yeah.

Love that detail.

Love that detail.

You gotta see that in, yeah,
families leaving a, a, a panic site,

whether it's in any type of show.

And then the, they've gotta drop their
teddy bear or their bunny or something

like that and have a lingering shot.

Oh.

Yeah.

Play with the heartstrings.

So, yeah.

But that's pretty much, that's all of 'em.

That's all of them.

Uh, I, I hope, uh, the Athena is reunited
with its wings in, in next week's episode.

That's an entire school.

They need to,

Yeah.

When they say we're gonna leave
the atrium, you're like, wow.

That is, that giant set with all of the
names and the, the, the water features

and the, the seating, the tiered seating
where they did the theater rehearsals.

Like all of that is sitting
in new, Nus Brakka's hands.

They better get it back 'cause
that's an expensive set, Rob.

Yep.

They, they've, they've got
a season two to do at least.

So if you, if you, if you're not gonna
bring it back, then blow it up at the end

of season two, but, uh, bring it back.

We need it for another 10 episodes.

I feel like there's a lot to play for
in terms of what they give us in this

season finale and what they maybe
hold as a cliffhanger for season two.

It'd be interesting if they do an actual
cliffhanger as in, um, you know, keep you

hanging on or whether they resolve this.

'cause as we know, there's no
real return for Paul Giamatti.

So we know that there'll be at least some
sort of closure with that, uh, story arc.

Yeah.

He'll have to take his bow, for sure.

Yeah.

Whether there's a, a hint of things to
come for next season, maybe at the end

that might be the cliffhanger, but we
shall see who sacrifices themselves.

Will our saucer separation be
reintegrated together with the atrium?

Hmm.

Will we see Paul Giamatti for the
last time or will he do the ultimate

con job and just be a, just be a
presence that isn't actually on screen.

No way, Rob, he's coming back.

Mark

He is gotta eat more scenery.

He's got one more

Yes.

Until then, See you turkeys in the brig!