Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Rob: Welcome back everyone
to Subspace Radio.

Another episode of Star Trek is out
and we are here to talk about it.

It's me, Rob.

Kevin: And me, Kevin

Rob: And we are here to talk
about the latest Star Trek:

Starfleet Academy episode Ko'Zeine.

For those of you that don't
know, that is the best man.

Kevin: Will you be my Ko'Zeine, Rob Lloyd?

Rob: Anytime, anytime I will give up going
to Ibitha – not Ibiza, Ibitha – to come.

If you are kidnapped and have
to marry, uh, royalty, I will

be there to be your best man.

Kevin: Good to know.

Good to know.

Rob: So, yes.

Uh, as we, uh, predicted after the,
uh, trauma and, uh, the tragedy and

the loss, the deep, deep loss of
last week's episode, this episode

was a bit of a, a reset, a bit of
a recovery episode, a bit of a.

Kevin: Bit low key.

Rob: Bit low key, a bit of an internal
looking inward into our characters.

Um, and this focused on relationships
between characters as opposed to single

episodes focusing on one character.

This episode focused mostly on the
relationships between, uh, Jay-Den

and our, uh, soon to be married.

Kevin: Darem Reymi.

Rob: And also that we had, uh, Caleb
and Genesis, uh, working on working

out their relationship as well.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, what did you think of this one, Rob?

Rob: This one was okay?

Yeah.

It's not the strongest of the season.

Yeah.

It wasn't, it wasn't bad,
but it, yeah, it was.

Kevin: I was definitely partway
through this episode looking at

my watch going, okay, this is a,
this is, this is a not good one.

Like, it's not bad, but it's not good.

Rob: Yes, yes.

it was a necessary lull
in proceedings, and

Kevin: Was it?

I don't know.

I think it's letting them off easy.

I, I think there are definitely
things about this episode I like.

I think the performances
all remain strong.

It really feels like they spent all of
the money and all of their creative juices

on every other episode of this season.

And this was the one that,
that barely squeaked by.

I, uh, I don't know if it was the return
of the conspicuously circular space

of the wedding moon that we visited.

But it was, that was the first appearance
of the, the volume that we have

had almost every week on Discovery.

And as soon as we went there,
I was like, oh, it feels like

a Discovery episode again.

Rob: Yeah.

It definitely felt like actors on a
stage as opposed to that is an actual,

you know, environment behind you.

Um, and I guess it would be one
of those bottle episodes or uh, a

one-off episode in a 26 episode season
that you could kind of get behind.

But when we're dealing with only 10
episodes a season, um, and near the

tail end of the season, you kind
of, um, treading water a little bit.

Kevin: There were conspicuous
absences in this episode.

How much buildup did we have about
Darem's parents earlier in the season?

They were on screen in this episode,
they were cast, but we didn't get

any lines of dialogue from them.

We didn't get to meet them.

It was weird.

I don't know if they filmed those scenes
and decided they weren't happy with how

they turned out, so they chopped around
them and left an awkward feeling episode.

But that's the kind of feeling I
had for much of this episode is that

there had been things chopped out.

There were things missing that would've
made this episode work in an alternate

universe, and by their absence, it
made the episode kind of feel weird.

Rob: Yes, it did.

We, we spent most of our time with,
uh, the meant to be betrothed bride.

Um.

She had a lot of heavy lifting to do.

She had a, a major focus in her dealing
with, you know, sacrifices made and

the person she was going to marry has
changed because of his time at Starfleet.

Kevin: Tough ask that role to
be like, you know, born into

royalty of her planet, no less.

Uh, and to play that likeably?

And for us to not blame her for the
situation, for, for us to like her

and then actually like sympathize and
empathize with her as she is watching,

listening to Jay-Den's speech and
watching the, the kind of dawning

realization pass across her face.

All of that stuff, very sympathetic for a
character that we have never met before.

So this is why I say the performances
were strong, but I felt like they

were propping up, uh, an episode
that felt barely written at times.

Rob: Especially with, you know,
the prominence of, uh, his parents

earlier on, and that shaping his
decisions and the pressure put upon

him to then have them there and
be mute was really clumsy writing.

And that should have been, you know,
that's sort of like writing 101.

You set up this, it is like, you know,
I'm going to do a very nerdy theater

reference, they, it's like Chekhov's
parents, they're mentioned early on.

need to see that go off and.

In, uh, again, a longer season we
could have had the introduction of the

bride, we could have the introduction
of the parents, and that all comes

to a head at this particular point,
but it's just too rushed and muddled.

And it, yeah, it didn't, didn't hit
the emotional impact that it could have

because we were not getting the full
story that we were kind of promised.

Kevin: I remember when we were talking
about late season Discovery, I would

sometimes say this one felt like it
was like it needed one more pass.

It was a little underwritten and in
the, the game of toxic or non-toxic

between Caleb and Genesis, which is
a, it's a charming idea, but it was

not quite, it didn't quite make sense.

What is this game, toxic or non-toxic?

Um, I guess we can kind
of infer it, but it Okay.

So it's toxic.

He's poisoned and anyway, like
it, it, it just felt weird.

It felt like we were, we were not
quite told enough to understand

what was going on, and then by the
time we figured it out, it it, ugh.

The whole thing about Genesis
wanting to sit in a chair that wasn't

her father's, um, like that is,
it's supposed to be weird because

she's hustling him, she's lying.

It's not the truth.

But the whole vibe of the episode
made me second guess it and go,

are we just not being told, given
enough information to understand

what's meant to be going on here?

Uh.

Rob: Yeah, I'm probably confessing
a little bit too much, maybe

because I had faded out of episode

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: and, uh, instead of looking
at my watch like you were, I was

maybe on my phone doom scrolling.

Um, and I'm there going,
well wait a minute.

Why is she trying to, like, what
is so embarrassing, or about

these references recommendations?

Are they fake or,

Kevin: All of her references
originally said that she cannot

trust that she belongs where she
is, and she's driven by fear.

And she hacked those references to, to,
well, she rewrote them to remove those

Rob: yeah,

Kevin: that they were unvarnished,
glowing instead of varnished glowing,

Rob: Varnish glowing.

Kevin: and, and this is her secret.

Rob: Yes.

Yeah, Sorry, I missed it.

Look, there's always a highlight
when you've got, uh, Tig showing up.

Always happy to, uh, to
have her presence on screen.

Um, yes.

And how did you find the, uh, the, uh,
the flirting slash chemistry between

our Genesis and Caleb starting to occur?

Kevin: Yeah, I, I enjoyed
what they did there.

Like these, these, um, young people full
of hormones in the prime of their life,

uh, bumping into each other awkwardly.

I think it was played perfectly.

The, the, the spark was there.

The spark was acknowledged.

But both of these people
did the right thing.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Were friends for each other rather
than, um, crossing a line into a space

where I don't think this show needs to go.

Um, so I, I really enjoyed the
line, they, they trod there.

I think it was beautiful.

Rob: Yeah, especially, it would be
a bit of a, a dogue we say here at

Subspace Radio, dogue move, uh, for
Caleb to, uh, be doing such things.

Um.

So, yeah, we'll be interested to
see, 'cause uh, it is revealed in

the episode that he, um, has not
spoken, uh, for four weeks to, um,

Kevin: Tarima.

Rob: To, yeah, since this, uh,
since this tragedy has occurred

and, uh, uh, all that has gone on.

So Genesis there not
only to, uh, distract him

Kevin: Yeah.

I like all that stuff.

The, the flawed people being
inexperienced and flawed is, that's good.

I think that's show is all about.

And I love that they
continue to give it to us.

It was just kind of lost in a, in a
episode that was, uh, underwritten

in, in its plot, I think.

Rob: I agree.

And I've only recently just found
out that, um, not only is there a

season two, they've pretty much just
finished filming season two as well.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

Lots to come.

I'm, I'm looking forward to it.

What did you think of, uh, the evolution
of Jay-Den and Darem's relationship?

Because I, my read of it, I think is one
that, to me it is very clear, but I'm not

hearing a lot of people discussing it.

Rob: Yeah, I, I, I'm kind of over
the whole, oh, I'm an asshole

and deal with it type of thing.

And he's like, there's, you know, being
asshole or not being a good people

person, and then there's just being
mean, and just for the sake of it.

I'm there going, it didn't really earn
its stripes, like at the end to be that

endearing moment of, oh, he's still, you
know, doesn't know how to handle people.

I'm going, right, so now he's just
still being an asshole to, to Kyle?

Kevin: To me, there is another layer
here that has not been said out loud,

but is there in the performances and
I suspect is there deliberately in

the subtext, which I think ever since
that scene where Darem helped Jay-Den

uh, with his public speaking fear
with the breathing exercise and they

got just a little too close to each
other, I think Darem has an attraction

to Jay-Den that is not reciprocated.

And he knows it's not reciprocated,
but he still, he feels envious

of what Jay-Den and Kyle have.

Wants what he can't have.

And that is what is driving
the assholy behavior.

I think it is a, like a defense mechanism
and he, that last moment of vulnerability

after Jay-Den and, and Kyle walk off,
that's what I see in his face is like, I,

I keep, why do I keep being an asshole?

Um, and it's because he likes Jay-Den,
but he's not, doesn't like him back.

Rob: I am, I am, I am digging the fact of
how low key, um, this has all come about.

This is a, his historic moment
in Star Trek to have our

first openly gay, um, Klingon.

Kevin: Yeah, with at the center of an
openly gay love triangle, I want to

Rob: Yeah.

And it's just, it's just dropped
in and it's not made this big

thing, which I, which I dig.

I really love that type of stuff.

Kevin: I like that it's being
underplayed for us to see.

Uh, yeah.

I, I assume it will come to a head
at some point, but, uh, really

enjoying the subtlety around it.

The actors are doing a great job of it.

I feel like they, uh, they know what
to play even if the, if it's not in

the script specifically, and I'm really

Rob: Yes, and I think it's.

Yeah, underplayed, but it's not sort
of like, it doesn't feel restricted.

It's a nice way of just going,
this is another relationship.

It doesn't need to be, uh, forced
or it doesn't feel, seem to be held

back, um, which I really appreciate.

It just plays out really nicely
in a, you know, almost offhanded

way, which for me is more powerful.

Kevin: Speaking of playing out nicely,
the end of this episode does work for me.

Like I guess I'm a sucker for a
needle drop and some slow motion,

but, um, Caleb's heartfelt letter
to Tarima over, like commenting on

the characters around him and what
they mean to him and to each other.

All of that did get me, and it was
like, oh, I'm back, uh, in the, in

the dying moments of this episode.

But it did feel like they were
patching up something that had been

broken up up until I was, I was off
the bandwagon and then they got me

right back on, right at the end.

Rob: We have talked about it before in,
in previous episodes, but it is that

very much iconic, late nineties, early
naughties classic television drama

where you get to the end of the episode.

And you have a letter being read
out or a diary entry or, or,

or a blog entry being read out

Kevin: Someone being
vulnerable the audience, yeah.

Kind of

Rob: A needle drop is hit.

The characters walk through their lives,
go through a moment as it relates to

them in the voiceover, they are shown.

We've had little moments of that
in Star Trek, but mostly, you

know, a lot of it has been brought
back in modern Star Trek for sure.

Um, but this is definitely one of those
moments you go, all right, we're, we're

hitting something, uh, uh, classic
from, from the turn of the century.

Kevin: Yeah.

My only other thought of this episode
is I feel like I, I, I, we are seven

for seven of making sure every one of
these episodes has a moment where two

of our cadets look into each other's
eyes and there is a spark and something

almost happens, something does happen,
but there is not going to be an

episode without a romantic spark in it.

And uh, yeah, I

Rob: we're doing it for the kids, Kevin.

We're

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

Think the formula is clearly there.

It's clearly working.

But if there's anything form that
is starting to feel formulaic

about this show, for me it is that.

It is that there is no episode
that's going by without,

uh, a romantic something.

Rob: Yes, yes.

Not much of SAM in this episode.

She's kind of still recovering

Kevin: No, but her hair made up for it.

It was amazing.

Rob: There is, uh, one thing
I wish I could be a part of,

but it is a wonderful thing.

The world of the, uh, black American
culture and their, and their hair.

It is a whole other world
and it's incredible.

Kevin: Is incredible.

Yeah.

Uh, uh, I am sad that SAM has been
glitching for a month and sent

away to a holo-spa, to, uh, uh,
or a Holotech Rehab Spa, is the

name of the place that they say.

It seems bizarre to me that I
suppose maybe Earth of the 32nd

century would have one holo rehab
spa maybe, but I don't know.

That seems like a weird sci-fi thing.

Just like a galactic meteor shower is
a weird sci-fi thing that doesn't make

sense if you think about it twice.

Rob: Well look, when you say holo
spa, that's ridiculous, but when you

added the extra five or six words
in between, that made it legitimate.

Kevin: So, yes, I, I hope, uh, I hope
SAM is feeling better by next week.

Rob: Yes, we shall see as
we move into episode eight.

Now, uh, as always we do here
at Subspace Radio, we're sort of

like inspired by, uh, something,
uh, that we saw in this episode.

And, um, uh, Kevin came up with the
idea of, um, alone on the bridge.

Kevin: My first thought, to be honest,
Rob was arranged marriages, but, um, and,

and, and there is that going on here.

We could have gone back to Amok Time and,
and Spock and his wife T'Pring to be, but,

uh, yeah, I, I thought maybe let's take
it in, in a slightly different direction.

And that moment where Caleb and
Genesis are alone on the bridge and

Genesis says, When else am I gonna get
a chance to be alone on the bridge?

It's, it sparked this realization
to me that these moments

are, are rare and special.

They do happen now and then, but
every time they do it feels strange.

It's like the bridge is, is designed
to be this hub of activity that you

imagine, especially on our ships that fly
in space is, is staffed full time 24 7.

There is always a crew up there and it
is always full of, of activity, or at

least it's the night shift, you know,
quietly, uh, making course adjustments.

But the idea that it is completely
empty for one person to, to be in by

themselves, it is a special moment
and I wanted to explore those moments.

Rob: And especially within the, uh, 60
years of Star Trek, as we see in the

opening logo, there have been so many
different type of bridges that have, uh,

accompanied, whether it be an actual,
uh, Starfleet chip or whether it be

something of a smaller scale like, uh, uh.

Like a Runabout or even
even the Defiant, um.

Moving through all that from the
original Enterprise, which is more

trying to get that feel of a submarine.

So like you say, that packed
environment is what a bridge

should be, in whatever size it is.

But to have those moments of just one
character isolated in that space for.

Whether it be through something traumatic
or, or dramatic, or even for some

reflection, let's go a bit deeper and have
a look at what we have in other stories.

Kevin: Yeah.

Well, I might kick us off with TOS then.

Um, so we've talked before about
season one, episode 25, This Side of

Paradise, which is the episode where
the, the colony has the plants that,

uh, that are brainwashing people
and everyone is happily beaming

down and Kirk is the last one to go.

And he has a scene on the bridge where
he makes a log entry and talks about how

his crew has mutineed and left him alone.

And he, he can't fly the ship by himself.

Uh, and so he is marooned there until,
uh, the flower that is over the railing

catches him in the face and he has
brainwashed along with everyone else.

And that is a definite
alone on the bridge moment.

But we've talked about it before.

So I'm gonna take us instead
to season three, episode 16.

The Mark of Gideon.

This is very original series.

Rob: I was looking at that one.

Kevin: Yeah, it's an episode
I often forget exists.

It's not particularly well remembered.

It, it's one that is often
rated low and and criticized

as being full of plot holes.

But in this episode, the Enterprise
is visiting a planet that they are

trying to, uh, convince to join the
Federation, but they are xenophobic.

They won't allow anyone down even
though their planet is reputed to be a

paradise where no one ever gets sick.

But they have finally, through diplomatic
channels, agreed to let one person

beam down and begin the negotiations.

And that person is Captain Kirk.

So Captain Kirk gets on
the transporter platform.

They are given the, the
precise beam down coordinates.

He beams down and reappears
in the Enterprise transporter

room, or so he thinks.

He finds himself in an
empty USS Enterprise.

He walks around trying the communication
panels on the walls, eventually

making, uh, his way up to the bridge
and calling for McCoy, and Scotty,

any crew member, is anyone aboard?

And he is completely by himself.

And there are some beautiful long moments
where he's just kind of walking silently

on the bridge f feeling how empty it is
and how strange it is that no one is here.

Um, many of the shots of the
empty spaces on the ship.

You can tell now in HD that they are, um,
frozen images that there are basically

photographs that are just sitting there.

Well, other ones you can tell are
live because the grain is, uh,

of, the, of the film is moving.

And that sort of jankiness of the
original series is on display here, uh,

which I think is fun in its own way.

But yeah, he is alone for, I, it feels
like five, 10 minutes of this episode

where he's just, um, searching the
Enterprise, trying to find anyone

and figure out what's going on until
he meets Odona, who is a mysterious

lady, who, who does not remember how
she got on the ship, only that the

place where she came from before was,
was completely crowded with people

and that she was struggling for air.

And that's all the
information we really get.

Um, and Kirk, Kirk is questioning
her and trying to understand.

Did she come from the planet Gideon,
is she from somewhere else entirely?

What the heck is going on?

The, the, the mystery is kind of left
for a long time in this episode, and I

kind of enjoy living in this mystery.

Unfortunately, when the mystery is
unraveled, so does kind of the episode.

It, it turns out what is revealed
is that the planet Gideon

suffers from overpopulation.

The, the planet is completely overcrowded.

It is, it is encased in a seething mass
of people because they love life so much,

they don't believe in birth control.

And because the planet ha is free
of illness, no one ever dies.

And so it has just completely overcrowded.

And the reason they want Kirk there is
because Kirk carries a virus who will,

uh, that they can use to infect the
local population and kill off enough

people to control their population.

Rob: That took a turn,

Kevin: Yeah, and in order to, to do
that, they built a replica of the

USS Enterprise, for some reason.

So that Kirk would stay there long
enough and be confused long enough

that he would pass this virus onto
Odona, who it turns out is secretly

the daughter of president of the
planet who they are going to sacrifice

as, as the first infected person.

Um, yeah, it, it, it doesn't that kind
of spiral of logic that does not quite

make sense, they never quite recover
from that in this episode, uh, yeah,

there's a lot of back and forth over
will they let her die and keep Kirk so

that Kirk can continue to infect people
or will they save her so that she can

take Kirk's place and her infected blood
can be used to infect other people.

That is ultimately the, the
dilemma of this episode it,

it doesn't really make sense.

So, yeah.

I would not watch this one for the plot
or for, uh, the deep world building,

but those, that first 10, 15 minutes
of Kirk going, why is my ship empty?

And, and where is everybody?

And who is this woman,
um, is, is enjoyable.

Just the, the mystery of it.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: Hmm.

Rob: Well, there you go.

Well, I'll jump ahead.

I'll jump ahead and look.

I'll look at, um, Voyager.

I always come back to Voyager.

We're doing season four, episode 25 One.

Kevin: Ooh.

Sounds like a Borg one.

Rob: It is a Borg one.

It focuses on Seven of Nine.

Voyager is traveling through, um,
as quick as they can to get home.

Uh, the focus is on Seven being taught,
uh, interaction socially by the Doctor.

The Doctor is playing mentor to, uh,
Seven of Nine and immediately this

is one of the stronger relationships
within the Star Trek franchise.

Team the Doctor and Seven
of Nine, it's great.

So obviously they're in the holodeck and
um, it's trying to elicit out of Seven

of Nine, a way of engaging in small talk
and conversation and what that entails.

And Seven of Nine will have nothing of it.

It's a waste of precious time and, uh,
she does not care to find out about what

they're interested in or who they are.

But, um, the Doctor is insistent that she
needs to make herself a part of this crew.

Um, there is a nebula, of course
there's a nebula, and it is, uh, is

so wide, so high, so deep that they
cannot go around it, for it would take

an extra couple of months and they
cannot, yeah, um, uh, afford that time.

So they're gonna go through it.

Uh, as they start to go through
it, um, the skin burns on the crew.

They're agonizing pain and
they have to get out of it.

Uh, one of the crew members, we have
a dear red shirt on the bridge, uh,

succumbs to the pain, just to let
know that this is a real threat.

So, through much debating and discussing,
the only option they have is for

the Doctor within a short amount
of time to create an entire bay of

cryogenic chambers for the entire crew.

Kevin: But Rob, who's
going to fly the ship?

Rob: Well, that's a very good question.

It can't, it cannot just be

Kevin: it couldn't possibly be a
Borg drone, who is just saying how

social contact with her fellow crew
members is completely pointless.

Rob: Someone would say that this
is a convenient plot device.

So yes, Seven and the Doctor
are the only ones on the ship.

Kevin: Hmm.

Rob: Um, the, uh, the tension
is, uh, is building up.

There's a strain in their relationship.

Um, going through the nebula
is affecting the systems on

the ship, degrading systems.

So they have to constantly
keep in, uh, in contact and

repairing these type of things.

Gets to the point where the mobile
emitter is not working that properly.

And so the Doctor is confined to sick
bay, like he was in, uh, the early days.

And Seven of Nine has a lot of
time on her own, wandering the

same corridor over and over again.

And yes, spending time on the bridge
alone, so much to the point where she

gets, uh, the point where the Doctor is,
you know, almost completely stuck there.

So Seven of Nine never sees him.

She starts to hallucinate.

She starts to see things.

Kevin: I love the creepiness of this
episode, the creepiness an empty starship.

These, these places that are usually full
of crew and depend on that crew to work

when it is, when it is empty, it's creepy.

Rob: Yes.

And um, uh, uh, uh, alien is
in the, the Nebula as well.

He comes over the to do trade,
um, but he's just a figment

of Seven's imagination.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Uh, whispers and voices are heard
in her head, and this is, you know,

Kevin: I love a psychological
thriller Star Trek.

Rob: And especially when

Kevin: We haven't had
one of those in a while.

I'm looking forward to a new one of those.

Rob: And yeah, especially coming with the,
the likes of Seven of Nine, who is meant

to be cool, calm and collected, and have
a rather, you know, cold view of humanity.

To have them reconnect with
their humanity, with panic and

anxiety and fear and tension.

It's great.

And when you've got such a
wonderful actor taking that all on.

Um,

Kevin: an episode for sure.

Rob: Yeah, she wasn't just
brought in just for a look.

Well, she was brought in just for her
looks, but she, uh, she had the hidden

secret of being an incredible actor to

Kevin: Hmm.

Rob: Um, so yeah, it focuses
on the isolation within this

space, trying to solve all the
problems, what is real, what isn't.

And the coda at the end is, um.

Seven of Nine goes up to, uh, to
Kim, Paris, and B'Elanna and, uh,

asks if you can sit down and engage
in conversation so you know how

desperate she is if he wants sit down
and find out what Harry Kim's up to.

Kevin: Yeah.

Uh, so good.

Um.

Yeah, love a bit of character growth.

Rob: It's when with Voyager was
at, its at its peak, you know.

It was going really well at this point.

That introduction of Seven of Nine
really, um, brought in a new, you know,

dynamic and really spiced things up a bit.

Kevin: It is luxurious, isn't it?

To, to be able to have
an episode like this.

I, I mean, thinking of, thinking of
Starfleet Academy and current era

Star Trek, each episode has to be
doing so much in the arc show that it

is basically impossible to devote an
entire episode to a single character.

We had, uh.

We had, um, Terrarium, uh, last season
of Strange New Worlds, that finally,

finally gave our character, our, our
helmswoman, a a story to herself, and it

was so long coming that it felt earned.

But apart from that, it feels
impossible to devote a, an entire

hour of television to one character's
experience, a subjective experience

that changes them, and then they, they
are changed for the rest of the show.

Rob: Yes.

And when you have Jeri Ryan,
that is something you can do.

I mean, it's a big thing, there's one
particular episode of modern Doctor

Who, Hey, I'm bringing in Doctor
Who into our Star Trek podcast.

Who would've thought, um, it's a great
episode called, uh, Heaven Sent with

Mr. Peter Capaldi as the doctor and,

Kevin: Hmm.

Rob: the entire episode is just him.

So that's a 45 minute episode
of the Doctor trapped in this,

uh, uh, maze and loop of time,
and he has to break out of it.

And it's when you've got an actor of the
caliber of Peter Capaldi or indeed Jeri

Ryan, you can sit there for whole 45
minutes and go, this is utterly absorbing.

Kevin: I, I agree with you, but I
think that to a one I think our our

cadets are strong enough in Starfleet
Academy that any one of them could

carry off an episode like that.

Is just no space in a season to devote
an entire episode to just one character.

They gotta keep it moving.

They gotta keep the A's and
B's plots playing against each

other because there's too to do.

Rob: We've had them as them as like
an episode focusing in on them, but

them within that world surrounded

Kevin: Yeah.

It needs serve other, other purposes too.

Yeah.

Rob: Yeah.

And to be like episode 25 here in Voyager,
that's right near the end of the season.

To, to just go, yep, just before
we do the season finale, let's,

uh, chuck in a episode that
just focuses on one character.

Kevin: Well from, uh, from Voyager,
I'm going to take us to the next

generation for another episode
that is centering around just one

character and their experience,
but it's a guest star, this time.

This is season six, episode
four of The Next Generation,

Relics in which Scotty returns.

Rob: Well, now we have
mentioned this one before.

We have talked about this one before.

Kevin: Have no doubt.

This is one of my favorites.

It is.

It is so full of things that
make me happy, this episode.

This is almost a prototype for
an episode of the week that

is gonna make Kevin happy.

It is, it is full of Star Trek nostalgia.

It is full of science
and sciencey concepts.

There's no antagonist other
than science, elusive science.

And, uh, and there it's a procedural.

There are the episode hinges on people
being good at their jobs, and that is

what is gonna get us out of this or not.

So for those who haven't seen it, Relics
is an episode where the USS Enterprise

encounters, uh, an uncharted Dyson sphere,
which we are explained by Data and Picard

is a sphere that has been built around
a star at the distance of approximately,

give or take, the orbit of planet Earth.

And that the, therefore the interior
surface of that sphere would be completely

habitable and completely capture all
of the radiant energy of this star.

That this is the most efficient
form of solar energy, that you

could, um, you could house a giant
civilization on the inner surface of

that sphere, if, if a race could be
advanced enough to build such a thing.

And that race, we don't get to meet
it here, we just find their abandoned

sphere and crashed on the surface of
that sphere is a 75-year-old ship with

a transporter locked in a feedback loop
containing in its transporter buffer,

Montgomery Scott, who was on his way
to a well-earned retirement when his

ship crashed into this Dyson Sphere.

Rob: Welcome back Jimmy Doohan.

Kevin: He's so good.

This is.

I think this is the most that
Jimmy Doohan has ever given to do.

It's certainly the most lines of dialogue.

Even some of those animated series
episodes where he was playing three

different characters, I feel like
he still had less to do than what

he, he got to do here, and what
he's given to do is delightful.

I love, more than anything in this
episode, that Montgomery Scott is

the biggest fan of Montgomery Scott.

He's constantly trying to tell
people stories of his greatest hits.

Did I ever tell you about the
time that we were spiraling out

of control down to PSI 2000?

The captain wanted me to repair
the engines with a cold start,

and I told him, Captain ya, cannae
changed the laws of physics.

And he is telling his own stories,
just like fans do about Scotty on

the Enterprise, and it is delightful
that he is his own biggest fan.

It kind of, it makes it okay for us to
all be fans of Scotty, if he himself

can see him in those glowing terms.

And I, I think like the tension
of this episode is that,

uh, he is a man out of time.

He is, he is not exactly an
expert on 24th century technology,

and he kind of gets in the way.

And he has a crisis of confidence as
he's like, oh, am I past my prime?

Uh, am I, am I past my use by date?

Geordi finds him annoying for about
half this episode, and shoes him

out, ends up shouting at him in in
engineering saying, you're in my way.

And it's, it's heartbreaking
to see our o, our old Scotty

knocked down to size like that.

And Scotty, what he does is he takes
a bottle of green alcohol from Ten

Forward and goes to the holodeck and
he summons for himself a recreation

of the bridge of the Enterprise.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: He, he walks around, he toasts
to his past, his fallen comrades.

He says, here's to you lads.

Cheers to you lads.

And, and sits down and drinks and, and,
uh, and is, feels sorry for himself.

The, the wide shot that shows the
bridge is stolen from This Side

of Paradise, the original series
episode that I mentioned first.

It is one of the few shots of an
empty USS Enterprise bridge and

they use that for the wide shot.

And then the, the rest of the scene is
played with just like two segments of the

bridge visible in the background because
that's all they could afford to build.

Rob: Oh my gosh.

Kevin: Uh, Picard comes to the, uh,
to the holodeck and, and they, they

share a drink and they talk about
ships and, and what they mean to them.

And Scotty says, I've, I've served on 10
ships, but this was the first one where

I was chief engineer and it's still the
only one I think I still think about.

This is where I was home.

It's just so nostalgic
and touching and lovely.

Um, but yeah, it all is all rooted
around this scene of Scotty alone

on the bridge of the Enterprise.

Rob: Excellent.

Thank you for taking us, uh, uh,
back to that beautiful moment.

Jimmy Doohan getting a moment to shine.

Kevin: This is the final
appearance of Montgomery Scott

in the timeline of Star Trek.

We see him fly off, they, they
give him, uh, one of the shuttle

pods from the Enterprise because
to replace his crashed ship.

And he says, oh, I might make it to
that retirement colony I was headed

for originally, but I feel like
I've got one or two other adventures

in me first, and he flies off.

And that's the last time we see Scotty.

His final appearance on screen as an
actor is in Star Trek: Generations

where, um, he witnesses the, the seeming
death of Captain Kirk on the Enterprise

B. Um, that is the, that is the last
time we see James Doohan play Scotty.

But the events of this episode
are meant to happen after that.

Rob: After.

Kevin: Which makes it a little weird
when they bring him out of, uh, out

of the transporter buffer and they say
the Enterprise is here to save him.

He's like, I bet old Jim Kirk got her out
of moth balls just to come and get me.

Doesn't really make sense because he,
he should believe that Kirk is dead.

But at the time, this show aired,
Generations was not yet written.

And so that is just one of those little
blips, I guess you have to, you have

to assume Scotty was still a little
dizzy from the transporter buffer.

Rob: Yes.

Yeah.

The, it's the little, uh,
continuity connections and

corrections we make along the way.

Kevin: Yeah.

And this is why still, I can still forgive
a continuity blip here or there in modern

Star Trek because it was never perfect.

Rob: No.

No.

And it's not meant to be.

It's the same like in Star Wars
when, um, uh, Alec Guinness says, I

don't remember ever owning a droid,
looking R2D2, and they go, well,

you spent three movies with R2D2.

Kevin: He didn't own it, Rob.

It was his friend.

He, he built it.

You don't own something you built.

Clearly, that's what he, meant.

Rob: What he told me was true
from a certain point of view.

Damn that Obiwan Kenobi.

Um, so from the highs of Relics,
I'm gonna take us to the, to,

to the lows of Enterprise.

Yes.

Yes, we are making our, we are
making our way to, uh, season

two episode nine, Singularity.

Singularity.

So, uh, this is a T'Pol
focused episode, um,

Kevin: You've got theme in your episodes.

You got One.

And Singularity.

I guess it makes sense,
people alone on the bridge.

Rob: Yeah, it is a common Star Trek
thing to go, you know, if we're gonna

have one person alone on the bridge,
it's bridge, it's gonna be someone

who's isolated from everybody else.

Um, so yes, everyone in the crew is,
uh, succumbing to this almost rage

type of, or, angry, uh, dangerous type
of altering to their personalities,

to the point where they end up, uh,
knocking themselves out, being knocked

out, being overwhelmed by it all.

We've got Dr. Phlox trying to
perform invasive surgery that

will no doubt kill crew members.

Um.

We have Trip, uh, Tucker becoming overly
obsessed with fixing the captain's chair.

We have the captain, um, needing to
write a speech, uh, on, uh, no write

a forward to a book about his father.

And, uh, we have, uh, uh, obsession
over cooking in the mess hall.

So, and it all gets to the point
where they all collapse and T'Pol

is the only one left on the bridge,
uh, conscious and able to, uh,

uh, save the day, which she does.

Kevin: So what the moments
alone on the bridge like.

Rob: It's, um, it's, it's a lot
rarer than I was hoping for.

So there's is some moments where
she's on the bridge with characters

knocked out around, and she's trying to
decipher if they're still alive or not.

But most of the isolation in this
episode comes to, comes from everybody

else being affected by, uh, what's
going on by this singularity event.

And, uh, T'Pol keeping her sanity,
trying to keep things together and

keep the crew from killing each other.

There's sort of like fleeting
moments where she is not, she's

the only one conscious and
everyone else is knocked out.

So there is a moment of her being
the only one, you know, awake.

And there is a, a loneliness
that builds up in the episode

where she has no one to turn to.

And then that's manifested near
the end when she is literally, uh,

the only one still, uh, conscious.

Kevin: This reminds me.

These, the entire crew goes
crazy sort of episodes.

I think that that is something seen.

It reminds me of Genesis in, in Star
Trek: The Next Generation where they're

all devolving into different creatures.

We talked about that one before where,
uh, someone's turning into a spider

and Picard's turning into a pygmy
marmoset or something like that.

Um, Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob: And the one where they all get,
where they all get sexy as well.

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Everyone except one of us is, uh,
is going crazy, is a, is trope.

It also reminds me of, this is definitely
an alone on the bridge episode, this

is, Remember Me from Star Trek: The
Next Generation, which is where Dr.

Crusher is the only one who notices
that the Enterprise has fewer and

fewer crew people on it, and everyone
else like, it's completely normal.

Of course.

Of course you and I are the
only crew members of the USS

Enterprise, Beverly Crusher.

Why are you being so strange about this?

And in the end, she is alone on the
bridge talking to the computer, trying

to understand what's going on, and
trying to get the computer to admit

that it is bizarre that she is the
only crew member of the Enterprise.

Rob: That was another one that
I was looking at going, will I

watch that or, and I went, no.

You know what's never failed me?

Enterprise.

Kevin: Definitely should
have watched Remember Me.

That is a, that is a good one.

I love that

Rob: And it's a Beverly Crusher centric.

How rare are they?

Stupid me.

Kevin: Cleanse your palette.

Go and watch Remember Me.

Take my word

Rob: Remember Me and also Relics,
I've gotta watch Relics as

Kevin: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, good stuff.

Yeah.

Lots of people alone on the bridge.

Um, f fun to revisit those with you, Rob.

Rob: Very fun.

So yeah, we've uh, got
three episodes to go.

Eight, nine, and 10.

Kevin: I have it on good authority
that our Professor Tilly is

finally making her appearance this

Rob: Of course, that's right.

I've completely forgotten.

We still haven't had our
Tilly appearance, so yeah.

Next episode it will have to be,
'cause we'll be shaping up for,

I assume a, a grand finale of
season one for the final two.

Kevin: Yeah, good to, good to have the
reminders this week of, uh, Caleb's

mother and I'm still looking for her.

And why didn't you ask Nus
Braka when he was here?

It's nice that they're keeping that thread
still alive in, in, and so that feels

like a promise to me that they're gonna
resolve that by the end of the season.

Rob: Especially when you've got an act
of, uh, Tatiana Maslani, uh, in that role.

You don't just have them as one episode

Kevin: Yeah.

You're here for 30 seconds and we'll
get back to you some other season.

That's not how TV works, I

Rob: I am sorry, Emmy
award-winning Orphan Black star.

You know?

Yes, we know you are She Hulk,
but you can only do 30 seconds.

Uh, yeah, and it, I mean, it is
getting a little bit contrived now.

The, the amount of times Ake says I'm
trying everything, going everywhere.

So there has to be a point
where it all comes to a head.

Kevin: Maybe this week, Rob.

Rob: Maybe this week we'll wait to see
and we cannot wait to get back into this

Subspace Radio chasm and discuss, uh,
everything Star Trek on a weekly basis.

Kevin: It's a chasm now.

Oh.

Rob: It, it is a chasm.

Or it's, or It's like it's so empty.

It's just you and me, here.

It's like the two of us are alone

Kevin: chasm.

Right?

Rob: A yawning chasm of a lonely deck.

A bridge of just you
and me and our thoughts.

Kevin: Very good.

All right, well, I look forward
to filling my chasm with another

episode of Star Trek very soon.