Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Rob: Welcome back everyone
to Subspace Radio.

It is me, Rob,

Kevin: and me, Kevin.

Rob: And we are here to talk about a new
episode of Star Trek that has dropped.

We are here to talk about episode
three of Star Trek: Starfleet Academy.

We are going to talk about all the
ins and outs of the episode and then

that will springboard us off into
deeper topics, related to, uh, said

episode within the Star Trek oeuvre.

Kevin: Specifically this week
we're talking about sports.

Rob: We are, we are going not
just any sports, 'cause there are

sports that we know now that may
have popped up in, but also sports

specifically of the future time.

Kevin: Future sports.

I like it.

Yeah, that does narrow
it down a little bit.

Rob: It does narrow it down slightly.

So we're at episode three of Starfleet
Academy and I think we can safely say

that this everything, all the sort
of like the trepidation or, or the

thoughts about what we were going into
with a Starfleet Academy, people going,

oh, it might be a bit high schooly.

It might be about young adult.

This episode is.

All the young adult, all the, it
felt like the high school drama

that you kind of were gonna expect
doing a Starfleet Academy show.

It was all on display here.

Kevin: Yeah.

And what did you make of that?

Was that, uh, for the worse for you?

Rob: Look, it was, it was all right.

It was all right.

I, I, I liked the balance last week
of the, the Starfleet diplomacy

with the, the, the teenage stuff.

It felt a little bit sort of like, you
know, um, Buffy the Vampire Slayer lite.

And I was a huge, I was a huge
Buffy fan in back in the day.

Um, and so.

Yeah.

Uh, you could see what they were
going for and it didn't annoy me as

much as it, uh, as, as it could have.

How about you?

Kevin: Yeah, it's well executed.

Like I, I think you're right that this
was the one I was like, oh yeah, this

is what I thought it was gonna be.

But, uh, it's done well
and so I, I enjoyed it.

There was certainly.

Like for, for what might be described as
a bottle episode where the stakes were

low and they didn't really go anywhere,
um, it was nevertheless very polished.

Like the amount of phaser shots
and transporter effects that

they had to do for this episode.

Uh, let alone the, the pyrotechnics
of the, um, the trial field, uh,

Rob: Yes, it was very,
it was very danger room.

If anyone is a a a an X-Men fan.

Kevin: Um, yeah, so like I feel like the,
the production value is still very high

and the, the acting was still very good.

I still love all the characters and
we got to see more of them here.

We got to.

See that Genesis has a few cracks, like
she's got some, um, daddy issues as, as

it was called in the, uh, in the episode.

And, uh, nice to see Reymi as well,
brought down a peg as he, he very

much, uh, clearly needed to be.

Rob: And not surprisingly, he has his own
mommy and daddy issues coming out as well.

We had some, yeah.

And we had some, um, uh, reveals
of some romances within the staff.

Kevin: Yes, indeed.

Yeah.

Very satisfying.

Uh, everyone's favorite nerd jock,
hybrid, uh, explained what brought

them back from Discovery, and
that's, uh, really good to see.

Rob: And makes a sense.

Nerd Jock Hybrid is with a, you
know, Jem'Hadar, um, Klingon

hybrid and they want to eat French.

Kevin: I want coq au vin.

Rob: Um, she did have one of the best
lines I have ever heard in Star Trek ever.

And for, for a Comedy Star
Trek line to outdo, uh, Lower

Decks, I'm very impressed.

And they should tip their hat, you know?

Kevin: They have shennaned
and they will shennan again!

Rob: That's right.

And, um, I particularly like the fact
they are the best and the brightest,

but they are still kids and they will
act like kids and the kids are idiots.

Um, that, that's, that's my official word
as a, as a high school drama teacher.

But also the fact that Ake had to
explain subtly to the point of not

subtly about this is what you need to do.

Kevin: Yeah.

If there's anything about this episode
that didn't fully work for me, it

was that, that thing of, supposedly,
Ake was like pointing the way to, uh,

appropriate revenge the whole time, and
it was all there to be seen in hindsight.

I watched this episode twice and it's,
it's kind of there if you wanna tell

yourself it's there, but like that thing
of, oh, Ake was, was the mastermind

the whole time is not as satisfying
as it should be because it doesn't

quite feel really, really on the page.

Uh, but yeah, that, that moment where
she goes, uh, she goes, Kelrec and his

tea loving eye, or whatever it was,
and she just does the, does the, uh,

Rob: a physicality,

Kevin: Mad-eye Moody pose is
what I, I thought of it as,

Rob: There's a bit of a hump as well
at point where she's doing like a,

they're going, what do you doing?

Kevin: That's what, yeah.

Literally we're sitting on, we, we looked
at each other on the couch and went, What?

What was that supposed to be?

Uh, and in hindsight, it makes sense.

Uh, yeah.

Uh, yeah.

Uh, otherwise enjoyed this
episode for what it was.

Lots of, lots of phaser fights.

Uh, a new, a new Star Trek Sport
introduced in Calica and yeah,

lots of, hi, lots of hijinks.

Uh, Mugatu!

Yeah.

Awesome.

No way I'm wearing that.

Smash cut to Mu-ga-tu!

High five.

You know, really good.

Rob: And there was some sort of reference
about doing something to the horn.

Anyway.

Um, yeah, the, that when you ever see
an, when you ever see an invented sport

in fiction, whether it be Quidditch or
whether it be here, um, trying to get

a grip of the rules and so you're there
going, alright, okay, so they're, they've

got, it's almost like claim, claim the
flag, but it's, you know, hit the mascot.

Um, and they're using phasers and the
phasers teleport and you go in the

penalty box and there's certain rounds,
so it's a little bit dodgeball as well.

Um, but it's always the case of going
to why are they in mascot costumes?

Is that how they

Kevin: There's like one line
where it has become tradition that

we use the mascots in the game.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: You're like, okay.

Rob: Okay.

So I guess in if, if they do a World
Cup version of it or you know, at the

professional level, it wouldn't be

Kevin: A lot can happen in 800
years, Rob, I'm, I'm very forgiving

about using mascots in the sport.

That's okay by me.

Rob: Very true.

Very, very true.

I, I have to be a bit more
considerate, but it's always that

case of sports invented by people who
probably never played sports before.

Kevin: Yeah.

Would it?

Would it?

Yes.

Yes.

I think that will be a recurring
theme in our conversation

about sports in Star Trek.

The writers of Star Trek are probably
not the world's biggest sports fans,

but yeah, you have to squint and
go, would that be, uh, uh, would

that work as a game in real life?

Probably not.

There's this one shot that on the
second viewing, Caleb takes out

one of the war college people.

He disappears, and there are two
more crouching right next to where

he was in the same line of fire.

And I'm like, come on,
Caleb, keep shooting.

Why wouldn't you keep shooting?

You take the other two out.

Nope.

Uh, so yeah, it, it is definitely a,
uh, made for TV sport that probably

doesn't hold up under close scrutiny.

Rob: Yes, yes.

A lot of rules have changed
in the 800 years, uh, Kevin.

Um, but I like the, like simple stuff,
like within the reality we set it up and

so then they set up like having a sniper.

I'm that's really clever idea.

But they only use it once.

Um, otherwise yeah, 'cause they're going
well, that would kind of defeat the game.

'Cause if you had sniper
every single time.

Um, but all the.

All the traits that you would
find in a teen drama or a

high school drama were there.

So it's the two opposing campuses.

You had, the the two opposing
deans you had the hazing

rituals with involving mascots.

Like that's been around since, you
know, 1950s style, uh, teen dramas.

It was sort of like, oh, you gotta
get the mascot from the other campus

and you've gotta do something with,
you know, the mascot, there's a

goat or a pig, or in this case, you
know, an alien creature with a, with

a horn sticking out of its head.

Kevin: And you had the contest for who
would be captain of our little cadet crew?

Um, Reymi or Genesis?

Rob: The love interest
on the other campus.

Kevin: Hmm.

Rob: So, yeah, all those traits
were they, they, they've sort of

like spread them out a little bit
like in the first two episodes and

now they've just gone full episode.

all

Kevin: The fact that all of the, uh,
the genre elements are there, makes

this feel maybe a little less original.

It, it's maybe a little
pedestrian as plot.

Rob: Bit derivative.

Yeah.

Kevin: What, what makes it
satisfying is the character work.

Like all the little details.

Having Jay-den stop the War
College people with his attempts

at Klingon humor was hilarious.

And that character driven hygiene
stuff is what really sells it for me.

Rob: And one of the combat, uh, combat,
uh, cadets act going, hear him out.

And I'm there going, bit of a spark.

Yeah.

Kyle, spark there.

Yeah.

Kevin: Everyone loves a Kyle in Star Trek.

Rob: Have you seen the, there's been a
bit of video footage online of the actor

who plays, uh, uh, Jay-den, um, showing
what his real voice is how, and how

he, he, he dips his voice to that lower
octave, and he goes, this is my normal

voice and this is my Klingon voice.

And I've worked on that.

And this is what they, they
said, they may touch it up a

little bit, it's pretty much me.

And you hear that change, you go, that's
good acting, that's actoring stuff.

That's the craft.

Kevin: His voice is very impressive.

The.

Rob: Yes, very impressive.

So, I like the fact, especially
in this, um, all the characters

are kind of made fun of, or not
held at too much of a high bar.

And so you, everyone is, you know,
even like Caleb has been, has been,

had the rug pulled out from under him
many times to bring him down, which is

great, but the other characters as well.

So we're, I like that fact that they're
not precious about the characters

and so we can all see them, um,
humbled, which I really appreciate.

Kevin: We got to see a lot more
of your Arnold Rimmer lookalike,

uh, Kelrec, this episode as well.

He got, uh, he got face
smooshed to steal his DNA.

Rob: He did, he got very, he got, he
got embraced in a very traditional,

and I do in, in, in bunny ears way.

Um, he's, yeah, the scene with,
um, uh, him and Ake was great.

Just the fact that he's there going, I'm
not apologizing and I'm not gonna stop.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Uh, and yeah, the,

Kevin: If you must stir your tea.

Rob: That's right.

He's a tea nerd.

Tea expert.

And like the pranks as well.

That's another thing we didn't talk about
like the, I didn't mention the pranks.

That's so high school kids as well.

And we got bird, we got a
Romulan flipping the bird.

Kevin: Yeah.

I think back to our past episodes,
bemoaning a single F-bomb in,

in an episode of Star Trek.

It's all over the place now.

The the horse has truly bolted.

Rob: Yeah, the, the horse is now
a wild Brumby out in the highlands

of, of New South Wales, new South
Wales, up in the Blue Mountains.

Kevin: Ake laying on the set or, you know,
reclining and switching reclined poses

between lines of dialogue is definitely,
you know, that was not a one episode

thing that is going to be her character.

And, um, I like how the
costume is playing into it.

Like there, the fact that she has bare
feet, they have given her like these gold

chain half sock things that like cover
her, her ankle and half of her foot, but

leave her toesies sticking out in the air.

It's cool like little gold
sock thing she's got going on.

Rob: I'll have to pay more
attention to Holly Hunter's feet.

I'll have embrace my inner Quentin

Kevin: jewelry.

Rob: Foot jewelry.

Excellent.

That's great.

Um, yeah, I'm absolutely loving it.

And um, I know we don't like mentioning
the outside world too much, but there's

been so much online negativity about,
you know, disrespect for the captain's

role or the rolling around or the
feet up and all that type of stuff.

And I'm there going, oh my heavens.

It's just a bit silly.

Um, it's a

Kevin: You must read different
websites than I do because I

I have not seen that stuff.

I'm out there.

There's all, any new Star Trek series
is bound to, uh, attract some, some

hate with everything new they try, but,

Rob: That's the thing I like, I put a
post up just on my personal, uh, Facebook

page and that's kind of open to everyone.

Um, so normally when I, if I
do a big post about Doctor Who,

um, I did about like season two,
the most recent one Ncuti Gatwa.

And I got people who have never followed
me, never seen me, people from all over

the world leaving their negative comments.

And I put up a post with, uh, Holly
Hunter with her feet up reading the

book, I love, and the glasses and.

The amount of love I've been getting
has been great, which I didn't expect.

I didn't put up for anything other
than I just wanted to talk about how

I love the show and promote Subspace
Radio, but then I'm getting messages

from all around the world of people
going, oh, it's disrespecting.

I'm going, yeah, it, I,
I, I'm being trolled.

I I have been trolled Kevin Yank.

Uh, uh, but yes, the positivity and
the negativity is a bit balanced,

but the people who are embracing
it, uh, it's silly thoughts,

which is silly, silly, silly.

Kevin: Uh, well, speaking of silly things,
what did you think of our digital dean?

This episode, Colbert was everywhere.

Rob: He was, he was, there was,
he was dropping gags everywhere.

All

Kevin: I, I am, I am struggling
to understand the function of

the Digital Dean, because he
is not the only computer voice.

Uh, so the, so he's not just the computer
voice of Starfleet Academy, and yet

he's calling scores on simulations to
decide who's gonna be on the Calica team.

And so he kind of is the
generic computer voice.

I don't know if use him when he is funny.

He was using the ad, the ad that
they were screening at the start

that got cut up with, uh, other
footage later in the episode.

But, uh, oh, my favorite, my favorite
line of this episode was when Ake

went, Is the voiceover too stupid?

Rob: That was a good line as well.

That was really good.

Um,

Kevin: Oh, and where are
my warp core pajamas, Rob?

I need, I need a set of those right away.

Rob: They have, uh, just launched
a thousand, uh, online sites of

people doing, cheap immitations until
we get the official, uh, starch,

Starfleet released warp core pajamas.

Um, do not accept any substitutes.

Kevin: Are they accordions?

Are they little accordions?

They are warp cores!

Rob: That's, that's, that is the, the
clearest sign I have seen of going,

we're gonna be doing merchandise.

If people watch it enough.

Kevin: Yeah.

The other thing worth just touching on
is the, the basketball scene and later

the, the confrontation in the Mugato
costume of, uh, the Betazoid Princess and,

uh, Caleb, that evolving relationship.

Rob: And she's an Aussie actress as
well, I've found, I found out, yes.

And the it, it's like a transparent
almost basketball, or maybe it was just

the lighting, but it looked like the ball

Kevin: Yeah, it looked like it
was like a web or a, a mesh or

something, you could see more through
the middle of it than the sides.

It was interesting.

I kept squinting at it,
going, is that a CG ball?

No, they seem to be holding it.

Rob: Yeah.

Um, now that relationship's
developing really nicely.

I was worried it would just be,
you know, um, they'd be right

into it and sort of like embrace
the, the sexy sexiness of it all.

But, um,

Kevin: Look, they got a kiss this episode.

It's moving along.

Rob: Yeah, but it was that case of
going, we've only known each other,

you know, you know, five minutes and

Kevin: We are strangers.

Rob: We are strangers.

Um, so yes, coming along nicely,
both characters are well represented.

Again, the whole case of they're not,
no, there's no perfect idol character.

It's sort of like they're just, you
know, sorting their crap out and

they're making mistakes as they go
along, which I really appreciate.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Can we talk about, can
we talk about hologram logic?

Kevin: Okay.

Rob: Okay.

Um, why does a hologram need
to be in their underwear?

And

Kevin: She doesn't have ribs,
but she does have underwear.

Rob: Yes.

And why does she need to have a
tangible, physical, tactile jacket

at the end when she could just,

Kevin: Oh, interesting.

Yeah, just there's

Rob: Just zip it on?

Yes, it is the whole thing if you do bring
in like a character that is a hologram.

Um, they did it really well with, um,
the Doctor back in the nineties, and they

did, but they had issues with that, with
like Arnold Rimmer in, uh, Red Dwarf.

That's right.

I love the fact that we're
bringing in Red Dwarf references

in, in a Star Trek podcast.

But yes, the logic of, uh, and like, uh,
being teleported into water and they can

have bubbles come out of their mouth.

I know that's yeah, just the
reality of a human, but it's, that's

that of things you need to think
about when you have a hologram.

Kevin: Yeah.

I did not notice the bubbles.

They would've bothered me if they
were especially noticeable, I think.

But I did like the, she said,
I, I had a bath for the first

time, or something like that.

After that experience.

Like the fact was in water was
an exciting first for her, uh,

which I enjoyed the fun of.

I, I. I get the sense she's here, just
like Commander Data was, is she is

reveling in every new humanoid experience,
new corporeal experience she can have.

So if all of our friends are in the change
room in their skivvies, so will she be.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Now, did she actually
remove clothing and is she

dressing herself every day or is.

Uh, is her, well, her, her cost, her
costume must be holographic most of the

time because she is, uh, porous as we see.

And, and her costume disappears as well.

Rob: And when she, yeah, when
she gets shot, she, they goes

straight through her costume.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

Kevin: I think, I think she.

I'm glad she was given a physical
jacket like everyone else.

And I buy that a hologram can wear
a physical jacket in Star Trek.

Will she be wearing that physical
jacket all the time or will she, you

know, add it to her program so that she
can project it whenever she wants to?

Like maybe like, that's kind of where
these things sit with me is that

Rob: And she

Kevin: can interact with physical
objects when she wishes, but is

mostly light most of the time.

Rob: Yes.

And she can keep that
jacket, say, in her quarters.

And that's a, you know, an heirloom.

Kevin: Yeah.

But the bubbles I don't think
would wash with me either.

I, I think I agree that, well, I mean,
if you can project fingers and toes,

why can't you project breath bubbles?

I mean Sure.

Go for it.

But,

Rob: Well, look, we're, we're using the
800 year, you know, a thousand years

in the future, uh, uh, uh, loopholes as

Kevin: I would hope if there's
an episode where these, these

characters are underwater with
breath breathing apparatuses, that

SAM would be the only one without
bubbles coming out of her suit.

Like that would be a
satisfying detail for me.

So I, I hope they would be on top of that.

Rob: Well, I assume we're at the point
where now that we're getting to the,

the crux of the show, we may see an
episode focus on each of the characters.

So we see a Jay-Den centric episode.

This

Kevin: Well, this seemed to be our,
uh, Darrem Reymi episode, maybe.

Rob: And so like Caleb seems to
be our lead, so he's gonna have

elements of his story every week.

But yeah, hopefully we get, uh, a
bit of SAM focus and a day in the

life of Starfleet with a hologram.

Kevin: Yeah, I hope so too.

Rob: And no, Robert,
this week we missed you.

Kevin: No, Robert Picardo.

No.

And we're still waiting for Tilly's, uh,

Rob: Tilly's, yeah.

And I think I'm, yeah, like you said last
time, I think she'll be a one and done.

She'll pop in for a cameo and be
gone, but we've got Tig and so if

we get Tig more, I'm very, happy.

Think this, some people have been
saying it, this seems to be a

better fit for her within, uh, the
Star Trek universe than Discovery.

And there

Kevin: Yeah, she kinda wandered around
engineering on Discovery being a

professor of engineering most time
anyway, so it is a very good fit.

Dispensing pithy wisdom seems
to be her natural state.

Rob: And that, yeah, that, that
throwing of shade seems to work

well to, uh, generate and, uh,
put the students into place.

Kevin: All right.

Well, there was a bit of sports.

I mean, you could quibble over
whether Calica is a sport, but it was.

Literally in the dialogue called a sport.

So we are calling it a sport.

There's a bit of basketball as well.

So we had the, we had the traditional
recognizable, uh, existing sport that

has lasted a thousand years and we
had this made up space sport as well.

Rob: Space sport!!

Kevin: Yeah, I, I think I like
going by sports because a lot of

these things turn up like they're
peppered over multiple episodes.

Um, for me, if we're talking made
up Star Trek sports, because we have

talked to Earth sports in the past,
like there's, there's the baseball

of it all in Deep Space Nine,
in Take Me Out to the Holosuite.

We've talked about that at some length.

So I think let's, let's play with the
made up ones today and my first made

up sport that always comes to mind
first, we have talked about it before.

It's from Star Trek: The Next
Generation season two, episode

14, The Icarus Factor in which.

Commander Riker, uh, gets all kitted up
in a laser tag outfit from the eighties,

because that's when this show was made.

Rob: Yeah,

Kevin: and, um, confronts his father
Kyle Riker in a grudge match between

father and son in a game Anbo-jyutsu.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Uh, this has, uh, this has a, a
pattern in Star Trek that I quite like

where sports are considered dangerous.

They're considered more dangerous
than their everyday jobs exploring

space in the final frontier.

They're like, oh, well, you know,
if you're gonna play sports,

take your life into your hands.

There's a bit of that
going on in Star Trek.

Rob: Well, there's definitely a sense
of like, like in Deep Space Nine,

like baseball is like, is, hasn't
been played for hundreds of years.

Kevin: Uh, it's retro.

Coming back.

Rob: Yes, and it has a sense of, you
know, it's retro or it's ancient or

it's outdated, but the element of

Kevin: There's definitely a novelty,
like playing sports is not an

everyday thing for this world.

It is, it is a novel, uh, pastime.

Rob: Yeah, and it's like, because their
part, especially in the TNG era and

onwards, their leisure time are the
games they play within the holodeck.

Uh, and especially with this episode
that's done within the holodeck,

but whether it's doing, you know, a,
a film noir style book reenactment

or going to, you know, a, a, an
Irish village hundreds of years ago.

Um, that seems to be their leisure
activity as opposed to physical

exertion and, uh, competition.

Kevin: Well, Dr. Pulaski has
a speech in this episode.

You'll remember she, she once was in
love with Kyle Riker, and uh, so she

knows both of these men, and she has
a speech where she's like, Ugh, males

of the species, they just, they can't
settle their differences except, you

know, getting in a ring and knocking
the stuffing out of each other.

What, what barbarity.

I thought we had moved
beyond this as a species.

And like that, that she, she's painting
with a very broad brush there and, and,

um, it, it feels to me like the nerds
who write Star Trek talking about how

pointless organized sport is as a pastime.

Rob: Look, yeah, it does lean into
the cliche that all nerds hate

sport and jocks hate, hate science
fiction and stuff like that.

I'm there going, the lines have
blurred a lot over the decades and

you can have, you know, sporty, sporty
nerds and you can have, you know,

uh, you know, nerdy jocks as well.

But yeah, at this point in the late
eighties, early nineties, never the

twain shall make, the Venn diagram are
just two separate balls that should

be in different, uh, orbital pulls.

Kevin: Apart from their head to toe,
laser tag get ups, uh, which are

like made of molded plastic, uh,
and in two different colors so you

don't forget which one is which.

They're, they're holding basically
like quarter staffs with, uh, with

boppers on the, on each end, like these,
these cushioned mallets on each end.

So they're like, you know, doing the
typical spin the staff and whack each

other and they're trying to knock each
other off of a platform, seems to be the.

It's very American Gladiator

Rob: I was just about say, it's
very, it's very Gladiators.

Yeah.

Um.

Uh, yes.

We had our gladiator time here
in Australia in the nineties,

uh, but, and in the UK as well.

And we in this exciting moment when
you're a child, when the British

Gladiators came over to Australia.

Uh, but I digress.

Uh, yes.

It, it, if any, any raised platforms
and you have to knock someone off,

takes any legitimacy out of it and
turns it into, okay, we're just

doing a TV show called Gladiators.

Kevin: So yeah, it's entertaining.

I mean, the, the sport is kind of beside
the point here, as it is most of the time.

A means to an end.

These characters, in the end,
Riker discovers that his father

has been cheating all these
years by doing an illegal move.

And, his father goes, oh, I had
to cheat to stay ahead of you and

keep you, keep you interested.

And, uh, with that, the last
shred of respect that Riker

has for his father evaporates.

Um, but they patch it
up in the end anyway.

So yeah, it's a, it's I think a very,
um, a very typical use of a sport in

a drama series is to, to bring some
conflict between characters to a head.

And, uh, it does that here,
but just, I can't get over.

It's worth, if you have not
seen this episode, just go look

up a photo of the costumes.

Here season two of Star Trek, the Next
Generation, I think the, the actors

were still being surprised by the,
uh, the costume of the week they were

being asked to put on and go going, oh,
well, I, I signed up for a space suit.

I didn't sign up for a laser tag outfit.

Rob: And this is the season
two, so this is like 1988.

So it in the height of
neon, uh, a spandex.

Kevin: Yes.

Oh, it, it looks very much like a TRON
outfit without the lighting, if you will.

Rob: Oh, excellent.

Oh, you're speaking my language.

Um, well, I'm gonna jump ahead, uh, to,
uh, my show of course, because it's,

you know, we're doing a podcast on Star
Trek, so it wouldn't, it wouldn't be

right if I didn't talk about Deep Space
Nine, but there's a sport in there that

isn't actually mentioned in the show,
but online it's known as Springball.

Uh, it's from, uh, season
four, episode 22, uh,

Kevin: For the Cause.

Rob: yeah, where, um, where we're like
put into thoughts that Kassidy Yates

is, uh, a smuggler for the Maquis, um,
and Eddington is still there in his

position of a trusted member of, uh

Kevin: Well, not by the
end of this episode.

He is unmasked in this one, yeah.

Rob: He is unmasked at the end.

But we have, um, it's not
really the focus of it.

Like with, uh, your, the Riker boys
using the sport to sort out their

differences or find the resolution
of their issues or stuff like that.

Um, this is like, the game is the
background and the focus is, um,

you know, Garak and Bashir talking
about, uh, Gul Dukat's daughter

who is on, uh, the space station.

And of course, uh, Garak is drawn to her.

Um, whether they were trying to draw
some sort of attraction, but we all know

that it was Garak and Bashir all along.

It was more that Cardassian
connection 'cause she's part

Bajoran, part, uh, Cardassian.

Kevin: I, I remember Ziyal this is, yeah,

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Dukat's daughter.

There's the, the Cardassian
flirting scene where they find

themselves alone in the turbo lift.

And uh, and one says to the other,
you have nothing to fear for me.

And the other one says, well, you
have nothing to your fear for me.

And it's like, oh, that's
Cardassian flirting!

I promise not murder you.

Rob: So yeah, everyone's going,
you know, Garak is just so,

um, is, he's clearly gay.

And go, well, what maybe we're
limiting what, what, how he identifies,

you know, Garak could, could be,
you know, uh, could be poly, could

be bi, could be, you know, pan.

He, you know, he's a, he's a, he's
a modern future, you know, man about

Kevin: Don't put him in a box.

Rob: Don't put him in a box.

If he wants to, I was gonna do
something very crude there, but I won't.

We're a classy establishment here.

Um, so yes, the game is in the
background while this, these

machinations and discussions are
happening and it's Nerys playing this

game, which is kind of like squash
and wall ball and a bit of handball.

So they're in like gladiatorial,
sort of like, padding stuff.

They've got helmets on.

So you can have the cliche winning
a point and you know, the, the

player takes off the masks and
does a ah breath of fresh air.

And Nerys does that quite a few times.

A bit of physicality in it,

Kevin: Yeah, there's people
knocking each other down.

Like, I think there's an, there is
another episode of Deep Space Nine

called Rivals in Season Two, where,
uh, Bashir and, uh, O'Brien have a

rivalry of handball, uh, or racquetball,
they call, yeah, it's racquetball.

Rob: It's racketball.

Is kinda like squash,
but with a bouncier ball.

Kevin: Yeah.

Two seasons later, here, springball
seems to be like the, the

Bajoran version of raquetball.

instead of

like rackets, have these little
like saucers attached to one hand.

Rob: Yes, and they have to knock
it up against the wall and the

other person has to knock it.

There's points awarded, but there's a
point where like Nerys is on the floor

and looks like she's lost, but she catches
the ball and everyone cheers and screams,

and so it appears she's won a point for
catching it, but they don't do it all the

Kevin: The arbitrary rules.

When when to only stand the
scrutiny of one scene in the

Rob: Yes.

Yes.

Um, so look, it looks like
a hell of a lot of fun.

Um, as we know within the Harry
Potter world, uh, they have taken

Quidditch and there are leagues and
teams of many young youthful physical

uni students playing, uh, Quidditch.

Um, so I could see if there are
any older but physically inclined

Star Trek characters who would
like to start a springball league.

I will be more than happy to join.

Kevin: Wow.

Rob: How, that looks like, I used
to play a bit of squash in my day.

Not very well, but I did.

Kevin: Springball is, follows the pattern
of a lot of these sports where they

are mentioned in dialogue a few times
and then at a certain point they're

like, let's actually show a match.

Um, and uh, yeah, that, that this
seems to be the one actual appearance

of springball, although it is
mentioned throughout the series as

something people do as a pastime.

And, uh, the next one I wanted to
bring up, uh, Parrises Squares is

Rob: I was gonna bring that up
as well, which is mentioned,

but we've never seen it.

Kevin: We have seen it now in
Prodigy for the first time.

Rob: Oh, now I've gotta
go back and watch it.

Kevin: In Prodigy season
two, episode eight.

Is there in beauty, no Truth.

This is the one where zero gets
their, um, humanoid body, briefly.

Yeah.

In the background of this episode,
like the, these, the, our Prodigy

characters have made their escape
from the Voyager-A, uh, secretly,

and they have left their holographic
replicas behind, fooling everyone.

And the holographic replicas are
unmasked in a match of Parrises Squares

where the, uh, the Vulcan Maj'el kind
of spots that the, the holograms'

personalities are all mixed up.

they, they play a game of Parrises
Squares with them, uh, for Admiral

Janeway to, to demonstrate that
the personalities are wrong.

And so we see a court of, uh, you know,
it is a small basketball sized court, I

guess you would, but the floor is made up
of a grid of squares that rise and fall,

Rob: Yes, that's right.

Kevin: And the, there are, there are.

Kind of targets at either end, but there's
three targets instead of just one hoop.

And something that is consistently
mentioned, uh, when Parrises Squares

is talked about in dialogue throughout
the history of the show is ion mallets.

So they're holding ion
mallets and Parrises Squares.

I think for me is the, the, prototype
for the dangerous sport that people

go, oh, he plays Parrises Squares.

He's respon, uh,
irresponsible, uh, you know.

They, they do this dangerous thing
in their spare time and it says

something about their character.

But, uh, by my research, it was first
mentioned in TNG, season one, episode

15, 11001001 with the Bynars, in which,
uh, the ship is undergoing maintenance,

and so everyone goes off and does their
pastimes and Tasha Yar and some, some,

and Worf and some other crew member
are kind of wearing blue spandex suits.

And talk Riker into going to play
Parrises Squares to represent the ship.

They're gonna, the, the
Enterprise Parrises Squares

team is gonna play against the
Starbase's Parrises Squares team.

Um, and, uh, it's, it.

There is a beautiful detail that I never
noticed in that scene before when I went

back and watched it as Riker wishes them.

Well, by doing this kind of hand sign,
he says, do us proud, and he does one

of these, which is like a live long and
prosper, but with a thumb over the palm.

Rob: right.

as,

Kevin: And he, he kind of does
it sideways, like do us proud and

it's, it's almost live long and
prosper, but it seems like, is

Riker trying to make this a thing?

The, the Enterprise hand sign?

It, it's Lower Decks, decades ahead
of time, I never saw it before.

It is hilarious to see him do it.

I'm, I'm sure it wasn't in the script.

It is, it is 100% Jonathan Frakes
slipping in an ad-lib physicality.

Rob: How could I have forgotten that?

Oh, Prodigy, bringing the game again.

It is a shame it has been so overshadowed.

What a gem of a show that was.

Kevin: We had a mention of Parisi Squares
just last week when we were talking about

the First Duty season five episode 19.

That's the game that Boothby had to
spend three weeks cleaning up the grounds

of Starfleet Academy after the Academy
team unexpectedly won against Minsk.

Minsk has a team, and Starfleet
Academy has a team, and they were

rivals and Minsk was favored.

Um.

We had it again in Voyager,
season three, episode 22.

Real life in which the Doctor creates
a holographic family for himself that

goes home to after work every day.

And his young daughter Belle
plays Parrises Squares with older

children and is killed in the game.

She suffers traumatic brain damage
and is going to die, and it's

too much for the Doctor to take.

He switches off the program, uh,
and, and is dealing with his grief

through the end of the episode.

Rob: Oh my gosh.

Kevin: So it is, it is
deadly that Parrises Squares.

Rob: Yes.

It is really deadly.

Those those are ion mallets.

Oh

Kevin: Yeah, there was talk of,
I think Riker talked about, I've

taken an ion mallet to the ribs
tell the tail that sort of stuff.

So yeah, Parrises Squares I think
is f for me, the, it's the, the

first kind of made up team sport
that I remember in Star Trek.

And, uh, it took it until
Prodigy when they showed it.

And inevitably, just like all of
these, it is less satisfying to see

it than it is to hear it told about.

Like, I think it is very hard
once something has been built

up in myth and legend to make a
satisfying, uh, embodiment of it.

And the Parrises Squares game
in Prodigy is brief and I would

say somewhat underwhelming.

Like, you're like, really?

That killed the Doctor's
holographic daughter.

I don't think so.

Rob: Yeah, there's a bit to, oh, I
mean, that's, that's, you know, that's.

Almost four decades of lead up and
preparation sort of like wonder and

nothing could ever match up to what we
Star Trek fans have created in our mind.

Um, and it's finding that balance
of going, like adding in the levels

that move up and down, trying
to find something that's, yeah.

Finding

Kevin: a bit 3D chess.

It's like what if the, what if
we take this game that we know as

flat and make it three dimensional?

Rob: Yeah, exactly.

And add in ion mallets, um.

Kevin: I had one more on my list.

Rob, I it's on your list as well.

Rob: Well, you got Parrises Squares,
uh, off my list, so I'm glad you

got to do the deep dive into that.

And I'm, I'm regretting that
I did not remember the, uh,

the, the Prodigy episode.

Which one are got?

Kevin: Uh, velocity, which is
a game that is mentioned in

dialogue in Voyager several times.

And then we finally see it in one episode.

Season four, episode 26, Hope and Fear.

Uh, Janeway in Seven.

Play a one-on-one match of velocity at
the start and at the end of the episode.

And these matches bookend the events of
the episode in which, uh, uh, as seems

to happen multiple times per season
in Voyager, Voyager almost makes it

home, but it turns out to be a mirage.

Uh, they, they are working to decrypt
a message they received from Starfleet

command and a helpful alien comes along
and says, here, I, I decrypted it for you.

And the message takes them to
a ship, the USS Dauntless, uh,

which looks a lot like Janeway's
Voyager-A in, uh, Prodigy, by the

Rob: Oh yes.

Kevin: And this ship has been
outfitted with a quantum slipstream

drive that supposedly will get
them home in a matter of months.

Uh, it's all too good to be true,
and it ends up being a trap by

this, uh, this alien who is scarred
by his experiences with the Borg.

And he's here to punish and take
revenge on not just Seven, but the

crew of Voyager who, uh, who allied
with the Borg against Species 8472, um,

allowed the Borg to continue to thrive
in the Delta Quadrant and led to the,

the, um, conquest of his home world.

So yeah, all of this to say this is a
Janeway/Seven relationship episode where

throughout it they are butting heads.

And Seven is experiencing fear about
the prospect of returning to the Alpha

Quadrant and having to live among the
Federation being looked at as a Borg

drone by all of these, these strangers.

And Janeway is meanwhile trying
to figure out how she, you know,

can she trust, uh, Seven or not.

And, and, you know, it's,
it's one of those good ones.

Um.

Yeah, I, I think it's a good standalone
Voyager episode that very much goes

to the, the premise of the show.

And, uh, this game of velocity,
which I, I believe Kim, Harry Kim

says he was a champion of multiple
times at Starfleet Academy.

Rob: I do think I remember, yeah

Kevin: phaser based game where it's
one-on-one, or at least it is in

this, uh, episode and a holographic
target appears hovering in the air.

It's this little saucer with
a ring of color around it.

And the players shoot the target, and if
you shoot it, it flips so that it is your

color, and then you can shoot it again.

And if you send the, the target flying
into the body of your opponent while

it has your color, you win a point.

That's what I can, that's what
I can learn from this episode.

The, the computer is saying point Janeway,
full contact, point Seven, like so

it's explaining what's going on as it's

Rob: So hit it, your color, and then
you hit it again hit the person.

Right.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

Or, or hit it once it turn your
color and then hits the person.

Maybe you can do it in one, I'm not sure.

Rob: So do you see any of it
like being acted out or you just,

Kevin: Oh yeah.

They're, they're, yeah,
they're in, they're in outfits.

They're bouncing around
the holo, uh, suite,

Rob: a, is it just a blank holo…?

Kevin: It's a bare hologrid
that they're playing

Rob: So no levels going and

Kevin: No, no.

Levels going up and down.

Yeah.

The only holographic element
seems to be the flying target.

Rob: Okay, so no fear of a, of a,
um, a, a prepubescent child getting

concussion the point of brain death.

Kevin: Yeah, no, they're jumping off
the walls and, and and rolling on the

floor and, and, you know, coming outta
the roll and shooting the target.

That, sort of stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Velocity.

Rob: Well, there you go.

Good discovery there.

Out of all these games, Kevin Yank,
which one would you like to play?

I think that's a question that we
should be asking ourselves after a

full episode, discussing future sports,
which one would you consider to,

that, you could have be a dab hand at?

Kevin: Uh, look.

Velocity looks like fun.

I don't know if I have the physique for
it, but, uh, think back to, um, an early

episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation
where Picard and Riker are playing are

shooting targets in the phaser range,

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Velocity feels like
that, but active as a sport and,

Rob: that like episode two or

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Very early on.

Yeah.

It's probably episode two.

Um, and yeah, I, I like velocity, I think.

I don't know if it would actually
work in practice, but the idea that

you could shoot this floating target,
uh, with enough accuracy to determine

where it goes flying and to hit your
opponent, that does sound fun to try.

Rob: A lot, that's a lot
of mathematical angles.

And does it ricochet off walls
and stuff like that Anyway,

Kevin: I don't fact that it's a
one-on-one sport says something about me.

Maybe I, like Caleb, am skeptical
of organized team sports.

Rob: Yeah, you're more of a tennis man.

Or golf?

Um, yeah, like I said, I think
I, I, I, watching springball, I'm

there going, this makes sense to me.

Okay.

I was, I was watching, uh,
phaser fights and teleportation.

I'm going, um, I'm okay,
this is a stretching.

I'm there going, okay.

I can, until she caught the
ball and everyone cheered.

I was there going, okay, I get this.

I'm going, well, what
the hell does that mean?

Okay.

I need explained.

Um.

And all the flashing lights
was really appealing to me.

'cause I've just said, oh, I get a point.

There's a flashing light.

Kevin: was searching for springball, I
saw a couple of eBay auctions for prop,

uh, springball rule and scorecards that
were made for this episode as props.

I don't, I don't see them anywhere in the
episode, but apparently the audience was

given these little cards that have, uh.

You know, fake rules and,
and, and a scorecard grid.

And it says Springball across the top.

Rob: Was it in English or Bajoran?

Kevin: I think it's English,
but maybe there's some Bajor

script under it as well.

Rob: That would be good
to know, so when I start

Kevin: up my league

Rob: of uh, uh, middle aged Star Trek
fans working up a sweat, but I just

wanna, I guess it's just the, the
actor in me, I wanna do that moment

where I win a point and then take
off my mask or, catch the, oh yeah.

And I can do the breath out
or I catch the ball and I just

want everyone to cheer and we

Kevin: I don't know if just old and
cynical, but every time an actor

like pulls off their mask like that,
it, it to me goes, oh, up until

this point it was a stunt person.

Rob: No, that's not cynical.

That's reality.

been watching, you've been
watching a lot of media.

You know, when they're, they're
doing, they're putting on masks.

So the actor goes, I'm out.

I can just this.

I.

Kevin: I'll be, I'll be in my trailer.

Rob: It's like a interview with, um,
they had Ben Affleck interviewing Matt

Damon recently 'cause they're doing big
press for their latest Netflix show.

And um, Affleck was talking to
Matt Damon about doing stunts

and all that type of stuff.

And he goes, man, no, I'm
the anti Tom Cruise where Tom

Cruise does all his stunts.

They go, if I've got someone,
if I, if someone's being paid to

do stunts, I'll let 'em do it.

He goes, but Bourne Identity that jump
over there goes, that's another guy.

Kevin: I didn't read
those pages in the script.

Rob: Didn't need to do it.

I'm sitting back there in my trailer.

Um, so yes, if you got the
opportunity, but with my league,

there are no stunt doubles.

Okay.

You'll be taking, you'll be wearing
that mask and catching that ball and

getting that cheer for whatever reason.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: No stunt double to fill that role.

Kevin: All right.

Well, thank you Rob.

It was fun to talk sports with you.

I know we are such big sports fans that
it's hard to hold ourselves back most of

the time, but this one episode we let out
our true, our true sportsmen tendencies.

Rob: And look, and we're even saving,
uh, for a future episode where we

talk about real sports in the future
because I, I, I like that you went,

let's just talk on future sports this
episode, so we can save our, our talk

of raquetball, our talk of water polo.

Any other mention of a sport
that's been brought up.

We did a little bit of a hint
with, uh, basketball, but, oh,

just wait till we go even further.

Kevin: Yeah, that whole episode
of Voyager, uh, that's a

boxing match with Chakotay.

Rob: Yes.

Is that or, or the one with,
is that the one with The Rock?

Kevin: No, no, that one, that one is,
uh, that one's another one as well.

That's with

Rob: And that's with Seven of
Nine going against The Rock.

Yeah, with the bumps on his forehead.

Um, well look, thank you for, for being so
restrained over the last couple of years.

Three years we've been doing this,

Kevin: Yeah, indeed.

Rob: Oh my

Kevin: keep new Star Trek.

Rob: They keep on doing it and we
keep on wanting to talk about it.

Well, we'll see how we go with more, you
know, new Star Trek after this season.

Um, but uh, yeah, thank you for
holding back your sports up until now.

Your sports love.

And we'll put it back in the, back
in the box until the future episode

where we can bring it out again.

Kevin: All right, well thank
you, Rob, and until next week,

I'll see you around the galaxy.

Rob: Cannot wait.