Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Rob: Hello and welcome
back to Strange New Worlds.

I'm Rob and joining me as always is

Kevin: Kevin.

How's it going, Rob?

Rob: Oh, very, very good.

I'm doing so well 'cause I'm
here talking Star Trek with you.

We are screaming into the void and
hopefully people are listing back.

Kevin: With our giant ship
maw, that's what's screaming.

Rob.

Rob: With a ship with a mouth.

Kevin: ship with a mouth.

Rob: did it a menacing mouth with teeth?

Did it

Kevin: start with the lows
before we get to the highs, Rob.

And the low of this episode was
definitely the design of that ship.

Rob: Yeah, so it did, it did seem
that it would be coming out of a

different type of, uh, franchise.

I could definitely see it in like
a Guardians of the Galaxy or any

of the Avengers type of space
adventure, uh, comic book movies.

Kevin: I can just imagine the creative
meeting, the production meeting

where the designer went, Look, I
did something a little wild here.

Uh, I'm, I'm not wedded to it,
but what do you think of this?

And everyone kind of went Ship it.

We're outta time, just do it.

Rob: Just do it.

Just do it.

We've got, you know, we've got so
many episodes to film in a year,

we can't stop and deliberate.

So yes, we are up to episode six of
season three of Strange New Worlds,

The Sehlat That Ate Its Tail.

What a title!

Um, and this is a, I would say
I'd be bold as to say it's a

little cheeky backdoor pilot.

What do you reckon?

Kevin: Yep.

I think so too.

This is, uh, this is leaning into that
origin story stuff that, that tickles all

of our nostalgia brain cells and gives
the fans exactly what they're asking for.

Rob: So, yes, this is an episode
that solely focuses on the crew

that will become, uh, the, you
know, TOS crew of the Enterprise.

Kevin: Yes.

Every member that is, that was available
at this point in our, uh, casting process

was, uh, arranged to be on the one ship.

Rob: And the one person who is not
leaves straight away, taking who they

can with them and at that particular
moment, as, as soon as they arrive on

the Enterprise, uh, the ability to,
you know, transport back there is gone.

So we open on Kirk, uh, as
first officer on the Farragut.

Kevin: Satisfying by itself because
we've talked before about how Kirk's

Farragut is like this, this ghost ship.

It gets mentioned, but it's never seen.

Kirk talks about how the
Farragut is there, but.

We're not sure we quite believe him
because it's, you know, it's kind

of like the imaginary girlfriend
from the internet sort of thing.

Do you really have a ship, James Kirk,
or are you just like hanging out?

Uh, are you just crashing our
party here on the Enterprise?

Rob: I believe the Farragut is in Canada.

Kevin: Yes.

So good to see the actual Farragut
in the flesh, the bridge, the

crew, the Captain a Vulcan.

Amazing.

Rob: Now is, you know, you, you know,
the original series more than I do.

Um, there's quite a traumatic
past with the Farragut.

Like, uh, Kirk in the original series
has talked about like taking risks,

or not taking risks because it, like
he lost half his crew and his captain.

Kevin: I, I have to go back and look that
one up, Rob, because I, I think it is

lost to the mists of time in my memory.

I get it confused with Picard's
origin story and the Stargazer.

Because the Stargazer was definitely
a case of, of cap, like in a

crisis, Picard had to take command.

The ship was lost, they
had to abandon ship.

And, and that formative experience
carries forward in Picard's future.

And I don't know, it sounds
right to me that Kirk has a

parallel story with the Farragut.

It sounds like something I've been told,
but I can't tell you exactly where I

heard it, and so I'm not a hundred percent

Rob: Well, we can come back
to that at a later date.

So we have, the Farragut is
attacked, uh, by a planet destroying

ship that they witness firsthand.

Uh, the Farragut is disabled.

Coming into the rescue is the Enterprise
with some gorgeous shots sh you know,

warping in putting on the bubble
shields, using the phasers to knock away

Kevin: I sense that they had a choice
between doing a quantity of effects

shots that were called for in the
script or putting it into quality

of a smaller number of effects
shots and doing without the number.

And they definitely leaned into quality,
so that later in the episode there were

things happening and conspicuously, the
camera just stayed on our character's

faces as they were like, wow.

And we got to see none of it.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

They put all their money into the
opening shot and bless 'em for it.

Kevin: But yeah, great.

The, the, yeah, the Enterprise warping in
with the shield bubble and the, the, the

tumbling debris, the, the, the Enterprise
being grabbed by the, the, the feelers

of the ship and pulled into it, and it
all felt, it all felt weighty and, and

tangible and in, in a very satisfying way.

I loved it.

One of the things I wrote in my notes
about this episode is it felt like a TV

episode size story with movie quality
production values, which I feel like has

always been the promise of these, these
modern Star Trek shows, but they rarely

quite get there to the extent that I
feel like they succeeded this episode.

Rob: Yeah, I, I, um, just to right
off the bat, I love this episode.

I thought it another really good one.

So that's two for two for me.

Two really good quality, uh,
episodes that, um, and had some,

and had some really dark stuff at
the end that you're going, right.

Some really powerful

Kevin: Actual original lore
for the Star Trek universe.

I, I didn't, I forgot
what that felt like, Rob.

Rob: Well, you've got it now.

Um, so yes, we, uh, end up on the
Farragut with Kirk and, uh, the

away team that, uh, boards us.

Yeah, like you said, conspicuously, the
ones that will be on the Enterprise.

So it was Spock, it was
Chapel, it was Uhura.

Kevin: I caught it right away, La'an
beamed off, and then the, the, the

all hell broke loose and I just said,
Spock, Uhura, Scotty, Chapel and Kirk.

That's all I said.

Uh, because it was, it was so clear to
me what we were doing all of a sudden.

Rob: So, yeah, in the, um, in the
previously on, we got a little

taste of, um, how Kirk has helped
Uhura in the previous episodes.

So that's, it establishes that connection
there and that plays into it here

because this is a Kirk who is not fully
at the place where we have seen him.

Kevin: None of them are.

Uh, so fun to see all of them in
that not quite there yet, uh, mode.

And it was like the, the differences
were emphasized, sometimes literally

in lines of dialogue that were,
were like cutoff versions of

famous lines they would say later.

Uh, Kirk, Kirk says, Risk
is why we're here, isn't it?

Not Risk is our business, to
cite the, uh, our, the, the, the

soliloquy I mentioned last episode.

Rob: It does sound a little bit like,
uh, when they did the Amazing Spider-Man

with Andrew Garfield, they could, they
didn't want to use the phrase, with

great power comes great responsibility.

So they rewrote it to be, you know,
when you have a lot of power, then you

have to think about what you're gonna
do with that power in a particular way.

So there going, just say it.

Just say the thing.

Just say, just say it, Bart, say the line.

Kevin: Yeah.

Later on Spock says To keep them
waiting longer would be not good.

Rob: That was great.

I really love that.

Um, and like those proto development,
'cause we've had little tastes of it.

Like there was a moment where like Uhura,
Spock and, um, Kirk had like a, a drink at

the bar at I think the end of season one.

Kevin: No Scotty yet,
but yeah, that, that was

Rob: No Scotty, but this
is like the development.

This episode in particular, you see that
dynamic of the counseling that Spock

gives to Kirk, and Kirk listens to that.

That would become a captain
number one relationship, uh,

developing, starting to develop.

You see that relationship, that abrasive,
almost borderline insubordinate,

uh, Scotty behavior to Kirk, but
how they develop that trust and

Kevin: Oh yeah.

Rob: yeah.

Kevin: It's so good.

Both of them are completely ineffective
on their own, but you put them in that

ready room together and they make magic,
and that is exactly what we wanna see.

Rob: The actor again, who playing
plays Scotty is outstanding.

Is absolutely, and because of him, because
of him, and because of that episode

I've had in my head for the last week,
I've just had in my head running around.

Um, I know it's got no connected, but
Jimmy Doohan in Star Trek VI, I think

when Spock asked for something, he goes,
there's nothing wrong with a bloody thing.

And he, yeah.

So that insubordinate type
of, you know, following

Kevin: Insubordinate, sarcastic Scotty
is very Simon Pegg from the and I

feel like our actor here whose name I
definitely need to learn is, uh, is a

beautiful like halfway point between
Simon Pegg and um, and Jimmy Doohan.

It, you can see both of them through
the one person and it's so delightful.

Rob: Scotty in the movies is definitely,
well, Scotty, like in the original movies,

and Simon Pegg is a lot more insubordinate
with his, like he's easier to swear,

Kevin: Yes.

Here he's insubordinate out of like,
because he's green and then he's like

at peak performance in the original
series and then the movies, he's like,

I'm too old for this shit insubordinate.

Rob: Yes.

Martin Quinn.

Martin Quinn is the, uh,
Scottish native who is actually

Kevin: I think we both said we liked
him right away when he appeared

last season, and I feel like he's
getting stronger with every episode.

Rob: Yeah.

And like, and him working off, uh,
Paul Wesley is amazing and he, we, he's

already established a great relationship
with Uhura and um, and Ethan Peck.

Um, so yeah, all that
stuff was just there.

And it's a case of, I'm going more
along the lines of, this is, I'm in

my head, it's, it's an alternative
timeline, so it's not gonna be

perfectly the original series.

This is their version.

Kevin: it is a new
retelling of the same story.

Rob: That's a good way to put it.

Yeah.

Um, and so, and Chapel there as
well and how that balances out.

And so him not dealing, Kirk, not dealing
well with the pressure, snapping at a

Uhura, having to come back and gain their
trust again, and he has to trust himself.

That type of stuff is really good.

But on the same level, you've got back
on the Enterprise, you've got that crew

working at the top of their game as well.

Kevin: Yeah, I, I was surprised at how
much they fit into this one episode.

They had two ships and two crews worth of
scenes, and, uh, it worked despite that.

We talked about last episode, feeling
a, a little overstuffed with ideas

and there wasn't enough room to really
explain everything that was going on.

This one feel felt like a better balance.

There were definitely those effects
shots missing to to fully paint the

picture, but the story felt coherent,
well contained and, and did justice

to every one of that very large cast.

The stuff going on on
the Enterprise was great.

I was, as soon as I, it started on
the Farragut with Kirk and then we

stranded that crew together, I was
kind of like, oh, I'm gonna like this,

but I feel a little guilty for liking
it because it is pandering to me.

I don't wanna sell out the
crew of this Enterprise.

Pike and his, his crew members,
because I really like those

characters and I feel like they
deserve their stories being told.

So anytime we're spending with the
future crew of the Enterprise is

time we're not getting with the
current crew of the Enterprise.

But they proved me wrong here.

We struck a beautiful balance.

think the, the Pelia fixes the
communication problems with, uh,

eighties phone technology is a
definitely a lighter hearted story.

Rob: And a reference to a pleasure device?

Kevin: Yes.

Well, look, you know what?

I thought it was very well handled.

Rob: Hey, if you know what I mean.

Um, and I loved M'Benga's line,
when he walks, he goes, Nope.

This is how I exactly see your room.

Kevin: I pictured it.

Yeah.

Rob: Um, yeah.

And great stuff.

Yeah.

We had, like, we talked about it last
episode, about filling the crew more with

random crew members, and we literally
had the very definition of a red

shirt show up and get killed and then,

Kevin: Yeah.

We saw her face in like two shots,

Rob: Yep, yep, yep, yep.

And then she was there to
this, this situation's real.

We can't kill any of our guys yet.

They're, you know, they're,
they're time locked by canon.

Kevin: Uh, fun to see La'an and, and Pike.

That's like, I feel like every single
episode is giving us these characters

in new configurations so that we get
to see new pairings of people working

together, and it's really satisfying.

Rob: Great clever stuff as well.

Uh, like, you know, using the
alcohol to and phasering the alcohol.

Kevin: Apparently phasers
and alcohol go boom.

Rob: Go boom.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, alcohol can be used,
uh, as an explosive device,

but with a phaser chika-boom.

And that moment of, that moment
of, you know, let's set our, you

know, set our, our phasers to kill.

You're there going, all
right, this is real.

And talking about projectiles, so
there's hints all the way through

about what the, the actual identity
of these scavengers, uh, are, is

filtered throughout and makes it even
more, you know, horrifying at the end.

Kevin: Yeah, it, it was, um.

I think judging it as a completed
story, it is really satisfying.

Rewatching the episode, knowing what the
reveal is gonna be is really satisfying.

Um, but the on first watching, like when
they, when Pike takes off the mask and

it's just some dude with a mustache, I'm
like, are we meant to recognize that guy?

Who is that?

Who's it supposed to be?

Yeah, exactly.

I, I did have that thought.

And then they're like, oh no,
we, the whole, the point was they

were human and I'm like, oh, okay.

That's less satisfying
than I was expecting.

Rob: I was kind of, I was kind of
picking that up when that moment

where it sees, uh, Pike as a human
and doesn't attack, doesn't kill.

Kevin: Yes.

Uh, I, yeah, I didn't catch
that until the rewatch, myself.

And like I said, like on the rewatch, it's
very satisfying to see those me mechanics.

Um, but in the, in the first time,
like then, then they backfill the lore,

uh, a little clumsily in the last like
seven, eight minutes of the episode.

And I was such a balance of, on
the one hand, I'm like, why are

we only finding this out later?

It's like, here's the story.

Now let us explain to
you what it was about.

Uh,

Rob: It is very much a, it's a very
much a Sherlock Holmes type of thing.

Sherlock, you know, Arthur Conan Doyle was
never really good at writing mysteries.

That was an Agatha Christie thing.

He was more, more focused on adventures.

So he'd, um, he, all his, uh, stories
were top heavy at the, at the back end.

Because then, then

Kevin: I'll justify everything that just
happened with information you didn't have.

Rob: Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

So the clues aren't really there.

It's just a case of, let
me just explain everything.

Kevin: That's what it felt
like here as well, is the clues

were not there for us to see.

And that's the second time this season
I have complained about a mystery

not having the facts on the table.

Uh, but, uh, nevertheless, I, I liked it
at the same time for the world building.

This new story of the best of us leaving,
fleeing the planet to, to try to, uh,

preserve the future of humanity, uh,

Rob: Before Warp dr before,
before Zephram Cochrane.

Kevin: Yeah.

Before Zephram Cochrane, before warp
drive because of, uh, the climate crisis.

And we watch this now and we go
were they the best of humanity

or were they the Elon Musks and,
and, and Mr. Amazons of the world?

Were they the billionaires
fleeing the sinking ship?

We don't know.

Like the history obviously remembers them
well, but uh, what were they at the time?

It's like left for us
to, to, to interpret.

Rob: Not just history.

We had Pelia there as well.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Um, but yes, I was hoping,
hoping to God they weren't the

Bezos or, or Musk of our generation.

Kevin: No, she, she did say she
remembered like the call going out for

the best and brightest and yeah, that
is a, a cool, inspiring story that,

Rob: That, that flip, that flip, which I
loved so much, they had flips like that

in, uh, season one, which I really loved.

You going yep, yep, yep, and
then that flip of horror and

that realization, that hardcore
sci-fi type, uh, concept explored.

To have that moment of celebration
of escaping and saving, saving the

Enterprise, saving, uh, this planet that's
gonna be devoured, saving themselves.

And then, then that representation
of 7,000 life forms, and

they're dwindling fast.

And you're going, oh.

And then, and then the reveal.

They take a time.

So there's the hint of it.

Then they cut to the
reveal on the Enterprise.

I think there's, they realize it on
the Farragut, but they don't reveal

it to us until on the Enterprise.

Kevin: The two money scenes in this
episode for me were the, the breakdown

on the bridge of the Farragut, where
Kirk goes, I don't need more ideas.

I don't need this chattering.

And he, he runs off into the ready room.

So good watching those characters
that we love, we invest in, we are

invested in their future relationship,
watching them fall apart before us.

Very satisfying, beautifully
written and beautifully played.

And then the one-on-one between Kirk
and Pike at the end of the episode

where Pike just wants to congratulate
Kirk for the job he did, and Kirk

can't take the compliment because
he's beating himself up about what he

sees as his first failure in command.

Rob: You know, and wonderful work
of not being sort of like a father

figure or a mentor, just a captain
who's had more experience at it.

Just going, you gotta, you know.

Kevin: Yeah.

You take the wins with the

Rob: You take the win, you're gonna
have more wins and more losses coming.

And um, um, incredible stuff.

Beautifully written and beautiful
realization of the characters.

Not this sense of, you know, no
patronizing tone, no sense of,

it was just a case of two people

Kevin: Very different captains as well.

Like you can feel the, the,
when, when the Enterprise shows

up and Pike's on the screen.

He is like, tell me what you do know.

Okay, we gotta get you out of there.

Like he's so business efficient,
matter of fact, and Kirk is

so warm and and emotional.

And you're like, they are both right.

They're both good captains and
they're different from each other.

It's amazing.

Rob: Great line, he goes,
I know how you feel.

You're the captain.

You wanna stay with
your ship, you wanna go?

Yeah, but we gotta get you out.

Kevin: It's the right call.

It's the right call.

He says, ah, so good.

This is my favorite episode
of the season so far.

It is a highlight of the series overall.

This is a, a, a, like this one goes
down in my rewatch list for sure.

It's, uh, and I love it for being
a serious situation with a serious

crew taking the situation seriously.

Like this professional workplace
drama in the future is what I

show up for at in Star Trek and
it, they gave it to us this week.

Rob: And elements of comedy that didn't,
you know, that were balanced well.

Kevin: Yeah, the pink phone on the bridge.

Absurd, hilarious.

But it's a sight gag with all the
characters playing it completely straight.

It is amazing.

Rob: And you've got what M'Benga and,
and, uh, Number One operating joysticks

to control the, yeah, just and the
line you are scrapping on the inside

Kevin: So good.

Rob: Very Galaxy Quest.

Kevin: Yes, indeed.

Uh, but we didn't get the, we did
get the, the shot in Galaxy Quest.

We didn't get to see it here

Rob: Too much.

Too much money was spent on that opening
bubble warp, uh, bubble uh shield.

Kevin: Yeah, so this was so good that I,
I basically, I, I already assume this is

the best this season is gonna give us.

Rob: Most probably, most probably.

Kevin: Yeah, like I'm looking forward
to the rest of the season, but if

anything even approaches this standard,
I will be pleasantly surprised.

Not because I, I, I dislike the show,
but just I feel like what it's going

for is less this and more everything
else we've, we've gotten this season.

So I, I ex, I think next week is the
too many Vulcans episode and so it's

gonna be back to Vulcan Hijinks.

Rob: Next week is, uh, do
you wanna know the title?

Kevin: Sure.

Rob: What is Starfleet?

Kevin: Oh, you know what?

That does sound serious, doesn't it?

Rob: Or it does sound like a
documentary that might be shown.

Kevin: Oh my gosh, it does.

Okay.

It's gonna be the meta,
uh, interview episode.

I wonder how they will separate it from
our Lower Decks, uh, uh, documentary.

Rob: right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We wait and see.

So, uh, what is our topic that
we have, uh, based our, uh,

Kevin: We've got a topic we've been
talking about this episode so long.

I completely forgot we had a topic.

Our

Rob: It was a good one.

It

Kevin: yeah, it was.

Worthy.

Uh, the use of ancient technology,
which is, uh, the contents of

Pelia's quarters in this episode.

Rob: Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I, I, I like the, uh, the, the
loose, the loose strings that we

attach to have our con conversations.

Where did, where, where did
you go for your, uh, episode?

Kevin: I went to the
original series, again.

I'm on an original series
kick at the moment.

I'm challenging myself to think of
the earliest example of these things

that I can come up with at the moment.

Rob: Excellent.

What have we got to, uh, talk about?

Kevin: We are in season three of
the original series, six, Spectre

of the Gun, which fans will remember
as the showdown at the OK Corral.

Rob: Hey.

Well it is season three, so we are
always a bit tentative when we go into

this caution of, of what is to come.

Kevin: I think this is a strong
one for season three, definitely.

But you can, you can also see
the, the formula starting to fray.

This is played on a Paramount
western backlot, largely with, uh,

because they, the, the Enterprise
is ordered to make contact with this

race whether they like it or not.

And as they approach this planet,
the, a buoy comes out and says, Turn

back, this will be your only warning.

Uh, and Kirk goes, well,
we have our orders.

Let's go.

Rob: Classic Kirk.

Classic.

Kevin: Um, and they, uh, for their
disobedience, they get transported down

onto the planet and the alien, uh, you
know, which is a puppet bathe in colored

lights, uh, tells them off for their
transgression and tells Captain Kirk

that as the one responsible, the pattern
of their punishment will be, uh, his.

And they don't know what that means.

But suddenly, uh, they are teleported
into what seems at first glance to be the

main street of a western frontier town.

But as they take in the scenery,
they realize that the fronts of

the buildings are really just
facades held up by plywood.

And so, so there, there's a line
of, it's, it's just snippets and,

and someone goes probably just all
they needed to ensure our execution.

They learn pretty quickly that they are
standing in as the Clanton gang, uh, who

will meet the Earps at the OK Corral at
5:00 PM for the historical, uh, gunfight

in which the Clantons are killed.

Rob: Going full Western mythology.

Kevin: Full Western mythology.

Yeah.

They, each of the characters is, is
like given their, their equivalent.

And we get to meet these guest
actors who are playing Wyatt Earp

and Doc Holiday and, and all of, uh,
the, the rest of the, uh, the Earp

gang in Tombstone, Arizona, 1881.

Rob: Year was this?

This is the third season, so this is.

Kevin: 69, I

Rob: 69 because, um, Dr. Who bring it
back to Dr. Who, they did an episode

in season three, which would be 66, um,
called the Gunfighters, where The Doctor,

Steven and Dodo go to Tombstone and meet
Doc Holiday and Wyatt Earp and go to.

Yeah.

Couple of years before,
uh, Star Trek did it.

Kevin: Sometimes, yeah.

These old stories come back into
the, the collective consciousness

all at the same time, and then we get
these, these sci-fi stories picking

up on them all at the same moment.

It's very interesting.

Anyway, Captain Kirk, obviously,
and crew set about trying to

convince the the townsfolk that
they are actually astronauts from

the future and no one is having it.

Uh, except for Chekov, whose
eye as usual is on the girl.

There is, uh,

Rob: Of course.

Kevin: is a young lady who is in
love with his, uh, Billy Claiborne.

And Chekov is goaded into a
premature showdown on the street

in which he is shot and killed.

Uh, and so Kirk and the remaining
crew, which is McCoy and Spock

and Scotty, they're like, oh,
well, I guess we can die here.

And so they start hatching a
plan for how they are going to

survive this eventual gunfight.

They continue to, to try to talk their
way out of it, and the scenes are really

fun for that, like McCoy visits Doc
Holiday and the the barber slash dentist

to, to try and talk some sense into Doc
Holiday as a physician, but Doc Holiday's,

like, I'll see you at 5:00 PM Well,
I'll put some lead in your head with

this gun, like completely implacable.

And uh, Kirk goes to the authorities,
he goes and tries to, to plead his

case to the sheriff and the sheriff's
like, What are you talking about?

You've been looking for this opportunity
to take out the Earps forever.

It's too late to get yellow bellied now.

The law will completely
look the other way.

You have my assurance.

So it, it is lots of fun to watch these
lay like, um, idealistic Star Trek

characters try to talk their way out of
the carnage that inevitably awaits them.

Rob: And it's amazing to think,
you know, because the, you know,

urban legend is this was, you know,
pushed as wagon train in space.

So it's a western in space to make it go.

So to have our Venn diagram is
pretty much overlapping completely

Kevin: Yeah.

All of these actors would've
starred in numerous Westerns

around this time, especially,
uh, uh, Deforest Kelly as McCoy.

He was known for his
career in the Westerns.

Rob: And that was pretty much,
that's what kept the, uh, the engine

running on television and in the
cinemas in America at the moment.

It was, uh, Western's a hoy hoy.

Kevin: Yeah, so playing a faux western
here, like the fish out of water, the

fish in a Western, uh, is an amazing
kind of like, layering of, of stuff

here that is really satisfying to watch.

Uh, they are, they're all equipped
with guns with, with six shooters

that they admire as amazing specimens.

And, uh, and Scotty of course wants
to shoot his way out of the situation.

He's like, well, we'll, we'll
just have to take them on.

Kirk goes, their, their expert gunsmen.

We'll be dead in a moment.

And, and it's, it played
very realistically.

Kirk also makes the point that the
guns were given to them by the aliens.

So they're obviously meant as, you
know, instruments of their demise.

So they set aside the idea of shooting
their way out of the situation right

away, and start to use their brains.

The first thing they
try to do is leave town.

But there's a force field at the edge
of town, so you're not leaving town.

The next thing they try to do
is make a tranquilizer grenade.

Doc Holiday is happy to
lend them some supplies.

He's like, doesn't matter, I'm
shooting you at 5:00 PM anyway.

Take whatever you want.

And uh, they McCoy cooks up a a, uh,
tranquilizer gas that Spock creates a

grenade for using instruments available
to them at the time, the ancient

technology we are here to discuss.

Rob: done.

Well done.

Kevin: Then there's 10 minutes to go and
Kirk goes, so how do you know it'll work?

Uh, how is it tested?

And McCoy and Spock go
you don't need to test it.

It's physics.

It can't fail.

And Kirk goes, everything
else we've tried has failed.

We're testing it.

And Scotty volunteers as on one
condition that I am awake and alert

at 5:00 PM to to be there with you.

And it's so heroic.

Scotty puts his face over the,
uh, the grenade and breathes

deeply and nothing happens.

And this, this is the solution that
Spock was looking for, that if this

gas that could not possibly fail,
failed, then nothing here is real.

And nothing, nothing
is there to kill them.

Uh, Spock is like, well, now
I know the bullets aren't

real, so they can't hurt me.

And the humans are like, we'd
have to be as sure as you.

And Spock goes, if there is the slightest
doubt, it'll be enough to kill you.

So of course, the solution
is mind melds for everyone.

S,

Spock hypnotizes everyone into being
absolutely certain the bullets aren't

real and they stand in front of the Earps
who shoot guns, and we see a, a, a shot

from behind as our heroic crew stand
there in front of a wooden fence, and

the wooden fence is pelted with bullets
and bullet holes are riddled in it, and

they stand there completely unaffected.

The end.

Uh, the, uh, the Melkotians, who are the
aliens in question, are so impressed by

the restraint of the humans to not, to
not fight for their lives, to not try and

take their take lives in order to preserve
their own, that they go, you know what?

Come on down.

Let's be friends.

Rob: Oh, amazing.

Look at that.

A happy ending

Kevin: Yeah.

Uh, but yes, I always remember
Scotty like breathing the fumes and

going, something meant to happen?

Uh, it it fun little scene
of the grenade not working.

Rob: Amazing, amazing wagon train
in space, actually going western.

Love it.

Kevin: Mm-hmm.

Rob: Well, I went ahead to
Voyager, back to Voyager.

I seem to be going back
to Voyager quite a lot.

Um, season four, episode 20, Vis à Vis.

Kevin: Vis à Vis, you'll
have to refresh my memory.

Rob: Now this is a, this is a, uh, well,
I, the only way I could get to, I really

wanted to get to that ancient technology
that's connected within our time zone.

And one of the characters who I knew was
obsessed with this our time period or a

little bit before obviously was Tom Paris.

Kevin: We've talked about this
recently with his black and

white TV at the end of the bed.

Rob: Yeah, black and white
TV at the end of the bed.

And he like creates the hologram
of, um, the Irish village.

He does, you know, um, uh,

Kevin: Dr. Chaotica.

Rob: Dr. Chaotica.

So this is the one that
I remember vividly.

I remember him working on a car,
working on a car, working on a roadster.

He wants to, you know, he
wants to be a grease monkey as

they talk about, I remember.

You know him walking around on the, on,
on the deck in full overalls with gr

with oil on his face, even though it's
hologram oil, so it should go off, but

maybe it's done by the same liquid as the

Kevin: Yeah.

Yeah.

The liquids are permanent

Rob: Yes, exactly.

Um, so, so yeah, had a bit of a deep dive
and a search, and I found, uh, Vis à Vis.

So it's not the main focus of the episode,
it's sort of like used to solve a problem.

So it opens with Paris working
in a garage on his car.

Um, this is of the era where he's, um,
assistant to the Doctor because since, um,

Kevin: Wow.

Yeah, early stuff.

So this is pre Delta Flyer.

This is before he gets
a real space hot rod.

Rob: Fly is mentioned, so it's
in the early stages of it.

But yeah, he's sort of like, what,
he's got commitments with the

Doctor in, um, in, in the hospital.

So I think he's, he's on, he's on
probation for something he's done.

Um, and so he comes onto the deck.

He's spending a lot of time in, because
he's with B'Elanna at this point as well.

So he comes on and they come across
a ship that can warp in and out of

time, and they're using a coaxial
device, which was mentioned.

He the only class he paid attention
to at the academy, that means

you can travel instantly from one
part of the galaxy to the next.

Uh, and, but

Kevin: This is sounding
very Threshold, Rob.

Rob: Do we dare see a grease
monkey slug of Paris again?

Um, and so the uh, crew member
is a test pilot, using this

from travel to place to place.

They have to find a solution so that
the coaxial energy is, um, can stabilize

and, um, Paris thinks outside the box
and takes him, takes this passenger Steth

to, um, his garage and he uses 1950s,
sixties, seventies, carbureted engine,

um, uh, technology and the theory of
that and incorporates it to filter it and

how a, an engine in a car works, use it
to, um, to make this, uh, device work.

And so that's really clever,
using stuff from ancient, uh, uh,

you know, uh, combustion engine
cars, um, to solve a problem in

the, you know, in the far future.

Um, then of course, this test
pilot isn't a test pilot.

He steals people's bodies, he steals
Tom's body and, and, and puts Tom body

in the, in the ship as it flies off, and
then the people whose original body is

Kevin: Bit of a body
snatcher episode as well.

This one

Rob: snare, a little
bit, little bit switch.

It's like kind of possession, but sort
of like the, the thief touches someone

and takes their body and then the body
he's taken takes the original body.

So it's a case of this
has been going on for

Kevin: Not possession.

It's body swap.

It's

Rob: Its.

It, it's, yeah, body transfer.

So the, so the person who was in the
original body has come to get his,

their body back, but then that body has
to be returned to the original body.

So this, this thief who's stealing
bodies, his or his original body

is like, could be a hundred.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So anyway, that, that
all sorts itself out.

And Tom is possessed or taken over and so
he's acting very strangely and like hits

on uh, Seven of Nine and like threatens,
uh, but then threatens Seven of Nine

and like almost chokes, B'Elanna um.

Uh, but yeah, the main focus of why
I foc picked this episode was, um,

Paris's obsession with, uh, our modern
era technology is used to, uh, save

the day in, uh, in the far future.

Kevin: The Memory Alpha article I'm
reading of this episode sums it up

in one line, which is Paris decides
to hit the shuttlecraft's polaric

modulator with a chromoelectric pulse
to disable its carburetor, in quotes.

And, uh, that, you know, on the
page in black and white, sounds like

a bunch of Treknobabble nonsense.

Is it, is it satisfying?

Does it work in the episode?

Rob: Um, yeah, I find it quite cool,
especially 'cause they ingrain it

so much into Tom's DNA and that's
one of the only few things I find

fascinating about him as a character.

Like there's a scene earlier on where he
misses a date with B'Elanna and B'Elanna's

clearly annoyed as, as she has every right
to be, and he starts getting emotional and

angry and starts saying she's emotional.

And as a half Klingon, she's being very
restrained and being very reasonable

and just wanting to talk about something
that she's annoyed by, and he's being

incredibly unreasonable and saying,
oh look, you're getting all emotional.

I'm there going, I don't
really like this character.

Um,

Kevin: Paris, that
happens with Paris a lot.

He, they, they keep, oh, they
keep just like crossing that

line, un unintentionally.

Rob: Yeah.

And it's very much a
case of, it's more of.

It's very telling of the time that
I'm there going is are we meant to

Kevin: B'Elanna can do so much better.

Rob: B'Elanna could do so much better.

We there going, is this, are we meant
to sympathize with Tom Paris here?

Because then he's possessed and
taken over by uh, uh Steth and

he's even worse and you're going,
so we want the good Tom Paris.

Is that good?

Um, and shout out the actor playing,
uh, Steth is, uh, Dan Butler,

who is uh, Bulldog on Frasier.

Great actor.

Great actor, wonderful actor.

Um, so yeah, it's a, that
little moment was quite, um,

remarkable in a standard episode.

It's one that focuses on Tom Paris,
so I wasn't really that invested.

Kevin: Yeah, no.

Fun one though.

It's, it is nice to pull these,
these, for me, like this is a

forgotten episode of Voyager.

And uh, yeah, I think, I think I said
last week that Return to Tomorrow in Star

Trek was one that is often forgotten.

These, these not so splashy episodes
that are still like, you know, a solid

week at the office at Star of Star
Trek, uh, they're fun to be reminded of.

Rob: Yeah, because I was kind of looking
at, uh, one in the later seasons, which is

Alice, where it's about the, they go to a
junkyard and they find a, a, a ship there.

no,

Kevin: Yeah.

The, the sentient ship that, uh, yeah,
it gets all of its, uh, plugs into Paris.

Yeah.

Rob: Delta Flyer is mentioned in
that episode, so not in season four.

Season four is before the
Delta Flyer, you're right.

Um, and so that one I'm there going, yeah,
there's mention of like the, the working

he does on mechanics in the holodeck,
but we don't actually see it here.

We see him working on this, uh, ship
and how it takes over his body and

creates this persona of Alice that
he, you know, is taken over by, but

it isn't really ancient technology.

So I stopped watching that and
moved on to, uh, to Vis à Vis.

Kevin: Hmm.

Well thank you for the
trip down memory lane.

Rob: Well, and thank you very
much for a very wholehearted, uh,

and hearty discussion about, yes,
clearly the strongest episode of,

uh, Strange New Worlds this season.

Kevin: Well, we'll see.

We're about to learn
What is Starfleet, Rob.

Rob: That is, we are about to learn
what is Starfleet, and we still have

four Vulcans, uh, four Vulcans, no
waiting, uh, around the corner as well.

So, um, we can only hope that it goes
up and up and up with a little detour

into, uh, superficial silliness.

Kevin: Yeah.

Alright, well uh, until next time,
Rob, see you around the galaxy.

Rob: So you then.