Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Rob: Good evening, fellow travelers.

Good afternoon.

Good morning.

Wherever you are, whatever time it is,
you are now in the Subspace Radio world.

We are here to talk about an
episode of Star Trek that has just

beamed out into the universe, and,
uh, we will discuss it gleefully.

I am Rob Lloyd, and joining
me as always is Kevin Yank.

Kevin: Is this the Subspace Radio
world, Rob, or is it a parody

of a slightly bizarro universe
version of the Subspace Radio

Rob: Or is it all a hologram,
holo, grammatic program?

80 years before the

Kevin: Are you real?

Are you the real Rob Lloyd, Rob?

Rob: There's only one way to find
out and we need to dance the tango!

Kevin: All right.

Well, I, I'll, I'll, that's better option
than a, a grazing shoulder wound, I

Rob: Yes.

Or a cut.

Or a cut, yes.

A cut from a chandelier on the cheek.

So yes, we are here to talk about the
most recent episode of Star Trek Strange

New Worlds, uh, season three, episode
four, um, A Space Adventure Hour.

Kevin: Yeah, I think last week I called it
the mystery hour because I, I, I saw the,

the promo photos for the show, and I was
like, that looks like a murder mystery.

And it kind of was.

Uh, but yeah, the, I completely
missed the, the whole, um, Star

Trek sixties parody element.

I guess they were keeping that
for the, for the surprise.

Rob: It was many things rolled
together in one, and it, it clearly

was their flagship episode or one of
many flagship episodes for the season

because they brought out the big guns.

Jonathan Frakes was back to, uh,
direct this one, so you know, you're

in for one that they believe in.

Um, but how did you find it?

Did you believe in this
episode, Mr. Kevin Yank.

Kevin: I kind of want you to go first.

Because I, yeah, I don't know.

I, I have, I have many mixed
thoughts is what I will say.

I'm curious if it took your fancy.

Rob: Yes.

Look, uh, for, for me, I enjoyed it, but
it definitely isn't up there with, um,

see Those Old Scientists or some other,
uh, shining lights of season one and two.

Kevin: I'll agree.

I think it tried a lot of comic
beats and only about half of

them at best landed with me.

So do I appreciate what
they were going for?

Yes.

Do I think they were fully successful?

No.

I came out of it going, do I hate fun?

Do I just not…?

I don't.

I feel like Star Trek Strange New
Worlds season three is giving,

trying to give us a lot of fun.

And I'm going, your fun
is not up to my standards.

I'm sorry.

Rob: Go back to the death and murder and
possibly being token over by the Gorn.

Give us that.

That's

Kevin: feel like it's the
third episode in a row that I'm

saying almost, but not quite.

Rob: Um, yeah, look,
there were, I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed it, but it wasn't
something I was adoring.

And I did find it very interesting
that especially there's many

different worlds and many different
levels going on in this story.

And the one in particular is this,
in this holodeck reality, there

is a version, there is a science
fiction show that is a sendup of

the sixties, uh, original series.

But our yes, sort of this is the thing.

And there's been quite, quite a
lot of articles and I, I'd like the

idea of talking about it because it
is kind of true with this episode.

You see it.

The history of Star Trek is
defined by the parodies of it as

opposed to actually what it does.

Um, and in many ways, Doctor
Who, uh, my other big love is

perceived by the perception of
is, is known by the perception of

its past, then the actual reality.

Yeah.

It's always that the wobbly.

Kevin: or whatever it was he,

Rob: Yeah.

The wobbly sets is always the
defining, um, uh, phrase of it.

And so, um, the same with,
uh, the 60 Star Trek.

It's defined by how people parody it.

Say, you know, John Belushi in the
original Saturday Night Live, or,

um, Jim Carrey in, um, in Living

Kevin: I think I wanna push back a little
bit on how Star Trek is defined, even in

the social consciousness as that, as that.

Certainly there were a lot
of parodies of the thing.

And parody is parody, but when
the, when the, the thing itself,

when Star Trek turns around and
attempts to parody itself, there is

something very precarious that you're
like, you're playing with fire.

Rob: What I was getting at, is sort
of like the, you know, it's, it's a

very funny moment to have the actor
who's playing James T. Kirk doing an

impression of William Shatner, but
he's not doing an impression of William

Shatner, he's doing an impression of
the impression of William Shatner.

Kevin: Yes, he is!

Exactly.

And it for me, we, we have
said again and again in our.

Um, in our thoughts on the Lower Decks
series, just how brilliantly it walked

right up to the line of making fun
of Star Trek, but never crossed it.

Rob: Hmm.

Kevin: And this episode feels
like it did not learn that lesson.

It did not have that deft touch and
it blundered straight over that line

and to the point where it was, it
was showing us a dysfunctional cast

on a cheap looking set that was more
fifties than sixties with incompetent

and mean-spirited creatives, like going
at each other or not caring about it.

And I, I can totally see that
it is a valid perspective to

say in the sixties, no one knew
what Star Trek was gonna become.

For most of the people working on
it, it was probably just another job,

and they were probably just people.

And there's something valuable about like
not putting them on too high a pedestal

and, and deifying them for something
that wasn't true about them at the time.

But this goes too far, like
it's an overcorrection for my

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean there were moments that I, there
were moments that I really appreciated,

like little subtle stuff like Ortegas
coming in as, as her characterization

and clearly bored with it all.

You could, and that's a, a really
talented actor to play someone who's

not a very good actor, but bored.

I like that.

That was a good little moment.

I love the, the, the bad alien
design where you could see them

holding the eyes with the rods.

That was kind of cute.

Um,

Kevin: Did you?

Did you, I don't see, those
are the things I didn't love.

E each case, at best they got a chuckle
outta me and then I felt, felt bad for the

chuckle because I felt like it was, um.

It was at the expense of Star
Trek that never looked cheap

in those ways, at least to me.

Rob: No, no.

And, and that's, that's the thing.

It's sort of like you, you how we perceive
the 60 series is, or how in modern, it's

sort of like the zeitgeist isn't what it
actually was and especially going back

and watching it, you can you see for what
it was of the time and how some of the

acting was more performy performative
because of that time period where all

performances were a bit like that.

But overall, the, you could see
there was money behind the set.

There was money, but they were
doing the best they could with

the money they had at that time,
uh, for, for a television budget.

Kevin: Yeah.

I will say, I don't know if my glasses
are that rose colored, but even when

I go back and watch original series
episodes today, which we do a lot, uh,

with this podcast, I get to revisit
those episodes a lot and when I look

at them, at worst, at their very worst,
everyone on screen is fully committed.

Rob: course.

Kevin: And yeah, the, the doctor
wandering onto the set looking bored or,

you know, the, the, the alien holding
up the eyeballs by obvious sticks.

Like these kinds of things are
gilding the lily, I feel like.

Rob: Yeah, I, I was, like I said,
I was okay with those things.

But the, um, outtakes at the end, which
were clear, which were clearly staged,

Kevin: Oh, of course.

Rob: So, it kind of, I I could,
I couldn't get behind it.

'Cause I'm going, if you're
gonna do outtakes, do outtakes.

Kevin: Do real, it

Rob: Don't, don't make fake.

Kevin: Don't make up funny outtakes.

Yeah, they didn't, they, they neither
seemed genuine in the making of this

show, nor did they seem genuine in
the making of that fictional show.

They seemed like, you know, that impro
game that has fallen outta favor,

whether it's like high school play
and you play a bad play knocking over

the sets and bumping into each other.

Um, that's what it felt like to me.

Rob: Yes.

And, and the, the cardinal sin
was, it wasn't that funny, like,

Kevin: that funny.

The funniest moment for me was the mix
up be, is it human pies or human piles?

And Jonathan Frakes off stage yells
it's piles then Kirk goes Pies.

Like that got me.

And then it was just downhill from there.

Rob: Yes, so.

Um, obviously, uh, our thoughts
on, uh, the parody of the sixties.

Star Trek is not as successful as they
would've hoped, but then we go into, um,

uh, you know, a timeline minefield of 80
years before it's meant to be, they're

trying to tie it in with the recreational
room from the Animated Series.

Kevin: Yep.

Rob: Um, we have a
holiday, uh deck episode.

Um, and it was It was, I, I love

my man Bashir

Kevin: Yeah, I am, I am happy with a
cannon bend in service of a good episode.

And, uh, yeah, it, for me, if they
were, if they needed to bring the

holodeck in and frame it the way
they did, I was happy to go there.

Um, and um, you know, we haven't
had a proper holodeck malfunction

episode in Star Trek in quite a
while, so I was kind of there for

Rob: Because we haven't had a holodeck
episode in southern whi— anyway.

Um, so yes, and that, uh,
that will be our, uh, topic.

When we finish talking
about this, we'll be

Kevin: Indeed more holodeck episodes.

Rob: of our, uh, of Holodeck episodes.

Um.

Uh, it was a bit of our, uh, Our
Man Bashir trick to have the actors

we know playing new characters,
and that's always a joy to see.

Uh, it was great to see, uh, our,
our, our, um, Aussie Aussie, uh, uh,

chapel use her actual Aussie accent

Kevin: Jess Bush.

Yep.

Jess Bush playing a real accent and
La'an putting on a fake American accent.

So it is like they handed the fake
American accent from one actor to

the other for the episode, which was

Rob: Yes.

Um, so yeah, that was fun.

The costumes were great.

Um, uh, Uhura did really well as the
sort of like the agent type character.

Very sassy, sixties.

Uh, Anson Mount was all, you know,
his voice change was incredible

and his physicality was great.

Kevin: Yeah.

Uh, like the hair, it's like, it seems
like the one consistent fact of all of

his, um, incarnations will be spectacular

Rob: He is the Samson of
our, uh, Star Trek world.

Um, it was a pretty nice little cute
little who done it type of setup.

Nice little tricks played along the way.

And I, I, I, I liked the little twist at
the end that, um, that the Spock companion

was actually, uh, a hologram as well,
which was kind of a cute little twist.

Kevin: I don't know if the same
thing happened on your couch, but

when she first walked in and Spock
was there, we were like, hang on.

Hang on.

That's not Spock is it?

But then he leaves and you're
like, oh, I guess it was Spock.

And then you forget your
theory until it comes

Rob: That's good writing.

That is genuinely good writing.

Um, now, okay, so, um, uh,
Scotty again was flying solo.

If you give us the promise in episode
one of Pelia and Scotty, please

give me more pe, Pelia and Scotty.

I like them together and I know
that we're not gonna have it

forever, but please give me more.

Scotty was, Scotty was great this episode.

But yes, I would like to see
a bit more toing and froing.

Kevin: It was conspicuous how alone Scotty
was, in that science lab trying to keep

the holodeck running, uh, and, and, and
rescuing La'an from, from its clutches.

Uh, and the fact that they made a plot
point of that n nevertheless made it

like it barely excused the fact that it
was really strange, except for the fact

that the number of times in the original
series that it also just seemed like

Scotty down in engineering, answering
the comm and nobody else around.

So it is nothing if not

Rob: I did like Scotty and Uhura
with their hypothetical conversation.

I,

Kevin: I, I really didn't like that scene.

I liked the acting.

I thought it was funny and charming.

But going back to my thoughts
last week, the number of times

they break the rules for no good
reason on a Starship on this show.

Like La'an's life is threatened
and it's like, oh, let's whisper

so the captain doesn't hear us.

This should be an all hands on deck.

This should be the moment where
the crew rallies to save La'an.

Instead, it's like, well, no one
really likes La'an, so let's just

keep this a secret between you and

Rob: Well, one person likes La'an.

I.

Kevin: One person very much likes La'an.

I really like La'an this episode.

I've done enough belly aching.

I'm gonna say something that
I really loved, which was the

whole Amelia Moon thing and La'an
geeking out on the holodeck.

Um.

I have said earlier this season that I
sometimes didn't quite buy, that the turn

of character was true to the character.

This felt true to the character,

Rob: was gonna, I was

Kevin: and I, I

Rob: I was gonna bring that up, uh,
because I'm there going, I'm loving

this and I hope Kevin does as well.

But, um,

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Like that infiltration of
the actor and the character,

especially bringing the dancing back.

But I love the justification of, you
know, the, the, the captain of the

ship that saved her from the Gorn to,
you gave her these books and that was

her comfort afterwards and it was a
lovely connection and her enthusiasm.

Kevin: was no need for her to put
on an American accent holodeck

program, but she did because she
loves it and that, ugh, I love that.

Those kind of details.

Watching a character enjoy themselves
and watching an actor enjoy playing

a character enjoying themselves.

All of that worked for me.

Uh, and it nicely balanced the fact
that, uh, the actual murder mystery

was, was like very unsatisfying.

I think when you set the audience up for
a murder mystery, everyone's leaning in

going, can I notice the, the evidence?

Can I notice the clues?

Can I pick up what's going on?

And there was nothing really there
other than a string of, of like

character monologues followed by
a death and then another character

monologue followed by death.

And, uh, at the end it was obviously
very frustrating for La'an as well.

They packed up the holodeck
and threw it in the garbage.

Rob: least for another 80 years.

Kevin: She was like, I wanted a
mystery, and what I got was tricked

by the holodeck, um, pulling a
fast one on me and changing the

rules of the test, uh, as it were.

Rob: I would've, uh, uh, uh, almost
expected at the end of the episode

when they said, well, let's put it
away, uh, I was expecting Pike to

say, repeat the line he said in, uh,
episode one of, of the season, I feel

as if I'm giving this responsibility
for somebody else to deal with.

Kevin: Yeah, someone else can deal
with these, uh, malfunctions someday.

Rob: So the big thing, alright.

Okay, Spock, the love hound.

How do you find?

It's the next, I know we've got a
con, like this would be stretched out.

We've said it before.

I know everyone can play a drinking game
with us about how much, we talk about how

much we miss the 24, 25 episode seasons.

Um, but this would be something
that would grow and develop

over three or four episodes.

And so jumping one ep to another to go
the previous episode, you were, you know.

Howling the loss.

Yeah.

Uh, two episodes ago you were howling
the loss of this relationship that you'd

already kind of gotten over anyway.

Um,

Kevin: it in the recap.

Rob: yeah, they

Kevin: They referenced it explicitly.

Uh, I when it happened,
I went, ah, come on.

Can we?

Like, is Strange New Worlds, the
Spock, uh, love story of the week show?

I don't want it to be that.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: Uh, but then rewatching
that tango scene at the end, I

have to admit it was very hot.

Rob: Oh my God.

Well, look, this is the thing, you know,
they are both very attractive people.

And when you have got, you know,
when you've got Ethan Peck in your,

in your corner, you've, you've,
you've gotta play your king.

And, um, he's a very gorgeous man and,

Kevin: Christina Chong
not letting down the

Rob: and especially seeing her.

Kevin: she definitely
got me in that scene.

Rob: Especially her dancing.

Is, is, is I, I admire
it for its articles.

Kevin: Yeah, the, the sparks at the
start of the episode when they're talking

about the holodeck and dancing, and they
almost like, they, they get their faces

close to each other and then she gets
distracted and goes, Amelia Moon and.

All of that was very charming as well.

And if they had left it at that,
I would've been very happy.

But, uh, they went back to it
and, and did the kiss at the end.

I don't know.

I don't know how it's gonna play out.

If the rest of this season is
Spock and La'an's love story,

I'll be like, enough already that
this is overwhelming the show.

But if this is a rebound fling
for him and an opportunity for

her to grow as a character, I'm
okay with it for an episode or

Rob: Yeah, I can see that there,
there is definitely a spark there.

Between them, they're both
very good actors as well.

I just want to temper our, our moderate,
moderate objectification of them.

Um, but they, yes, it, it, I hope it isn't
something long term, but it's definitely.

Kevin: If, if they come back next week
and it's like, uh, you know, coyly

referenced of, whew, if that was a night.

Right, uh, let's go back being colleagues.

Aye, aye, sir.

You know, that would be great for me.

I think that would be perfect because,
you know, people have workspace flings,

especially after a traumatic relationship.

You need to get it outta your
system and have the rebound.

Rob: Yeah.

I'm not as, uh, as hopeful as that.

I think this is gonna be
milked a little bit more.

But that is the episode, not as,
uh, you know, didn't reach the

heights of what I was hoping for.

And I think Kevin was the same.

Um, but, uh, there was some,
uh, nice stuff in there.

So let's, uh, let's delve into our second
episode dealing with, uh, holodecks.

Kevin: Yeah, we last discussed
Holodecks way back in episode 18.

Which was for, uh, Prodigy, uh,
season one, episode 17, Ghost in

the Machine, and 18 Mind Walk.

Uh, so obviously Ghost in the Machine
was the, the holodeck one that taught

new Star Trek fans what the Holodeck was.

And, uh, we, we talked about some of our
favorites, but there are more to cover!

Rob: Yes.

Uh, with a cavalcade of cameos.

What a, what?

That just rolled off the tongue.

A cavalcade of cameos.

Kevin: That's right.

That's, that's the one with, it
ended with, uh, with like Spock

and Scotty and her and Odo.

And all of these.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, voice clips reused.

Rob: Uh, speaking earlier also the, the
Prodigy episode where they come across

that culture that has taken on the
Federation, um, that was a be, I think

a better episode, a more successful
episode of showing how perceptions of

Star Trek is away from the reality.

I think that was a very, a much more,
a cleverer of representation of that.

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

And if you're gonna talk Star Trek
parodies like that, that hued much closer

to the model, the successful model of
Galaxy Quest of like a, an alien race.

Misunderstanding the transmissions.

Rob: Exactly, but still playing it,
uh, close to the heart, which is good.

Um, okay, so, uh, let's go in
our always chronological order.

I bet you have a next
generation episode to give me

Kevin: I bet I have a couple.

Rob: Ayy!

Well, you go, you

Kevin: the last time we talked about
holodeck episodes, we talked about kind

of the, um, the series of Sherlock Holmes
Mysteries with, uh, with Data and, uh,

as Holmes and Geordi as, um, Dr. Watson.

And, uh, and we skimmed right over The Big
Goodbye, which is TNG, season one, episode

12, the first real holodeck episode in
Star Trek history, if you don't count the

animated series, recreate, uh, recreation

Rob: Recreation deck.

That's right.

Kevin: Um, and when, when we last talked
holodecks, I kind of said, oh, The Big

Goodbye, it's not that interesting.

Uh, but I went back and watched it
this week, and there is definitely

something interesting about a start.

And certainly, certainly with A
Space Adventure Hour this week,

there are a lot of things in common.

In The Big Goodbye.

The crew is trying out the holodeck.

Like Picard, the, the holodeck
has been recently upgraded and

Picard is very stressed at work.

So Troi prescribes a
visit to the holodeck.

He, uh, fires up a program based on
his favorite mystery novels, Dixon

Rob: That's right.

Kevin: Uh, and he puts on a fedora cap.

He goes into the holodeck and plays the
part of the private detective, and then

something happens to the ship that causes
the holodeck to glitch and it, uh, it

loses contact with the rest of the ship.

No one can communicate in or out.

It will not open the exit doors when asked
to, and the only way to save the ship

is to solve the mystery in the holodeck.

It is basically exactly the same
model as A Space Adventure Hour here.

Um, just with a bit more kinda
gumshoe detective tropes and a bit

less of that Star Trek Hollywood
actors sort of stuff going

Rob: And do, do they come back to that
world in, uh, First Contact when he

Kevin: Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

When he is, uh, when they're evading
the Borg, they, they, uh, go into

the holodeck, fire up Dixon Hill
and disable safety protocols.

Oh yes.

Safety protocols also get disabled,
threatening the lives of the participants

in the program in this episode too.

So yeah, it matches it very closely.

Rob: This is season, this is
season one, so it is a tough

season to, uh, reflect on.

It was not its best.

Kevin: Yeah, it's a safe season
one episode I'd say for, for,

for better and for worse.

It's safe in that everyone is playing
recognizable versions of their characters.

It's committed, it's charming.

It's a worthy episode.

I think it's not fatally
flawed in any way.

It's also safe in that it, it.

It tells a small story.

Doesn't take any big swings.

And so, um, it's, it's not a unmissable
chapter in Star Trek history.

But, uh, there's some lovely
sizzle between Picard and

Crusher in this episode.

Picard first visits the holodeck in
his uniform, and all the characters

are going, what is it, halloween?

You know, you're dressed up for
a costume party or, or you'll

be ready for the sleepover soon.

Uh, all of this sort of stuff.

And after a couple of scenes, Picard goes,
I'm clearly not well dressed for this.

And he, he pauses the, uh, program
and goes to the conference room on

the bridge and geeks out in front
of the entire bridge crew going.

It's amazing!

And he still has lipstick smeared on
his face from the, the, the, the, uh,

new client that kissed Dixon Hill.

And he is geeking out and he
goes, you all gonna come with me?

And it is, it is, uh, perhaps
a little out of character for

Picard, but you can buy it.

That he's a nerd and he forgets

Rob: Especially, especially
in season one, because from

Kevin: Yeah.

Very straight laced.

Rob: Yeah, like to the
point of almost unlikeable.

Kevin: Yeah.

Um, at the end of the episode, there's
a plot point where the, like, in order

to try to escape the life-threatening
situation in this murder mystery, Picard

tries to convince the holodeck characters
that they are characters in a holodeck,

and that he is actually the captain
of a Starship, and no one buys it.

Um, but then they finally get
the doors open and the characters

go there it is the Starship.

It's real.

He was telling the truth.

We are gonna go out there and
explore the whole new world.

And the holodeck characters
walk out into the hallway.

The mob boss and his henchman walk out
into the hallway and they're like, it's

a whole new world, ripe for the taking.

And then they slowly
dissolved from the feet going.

What's going on?

Don't they know who I am?

Who do they think they, blah,
blah blah, and they're gone.

And so the fact that, you know, holodeck
stuff dissolves, is outside of the

holodeck is very clearly established.

But earlier in the episode, Picard makes
it all the way to the observation lounge

with holodeck lipstick on his face.

So there are, there are a few
little like inconsistencies there.

I think we've, In Encounter at Farpoint,
Wesley falls in a pond in the holodeck

and he comes out soaking wet as well.

So there's something about liquids
on the holodeck are, are persistent.

Rob: Um, you made some good
logic leaps there, Kevin.

You always bring that to our episodes.

Kevin: They were very obviously playing
up the Picard and Crusher, like will

they, won't they, uh, love interest there.

Uh, Picard invites Crusher and she looks
at him like she's just been invited

on a date and then he goes, oh, and we
should also invite the ship's historian.

And she rolls her eyes and goes, I
can't believe I fell for it again.

Uh, it is, it is very funny to
watch her want to engage with him

romantically and then, um, him
take absolutely no notice of her.

That was the model they were
playing early in the series,

and it, it really works for me.

The other one I wanted to bring
up was Hollow Pursuits, which is

a season three episode and is the
introduction of Reginald Barclay.

Rob: Hey.

Kevin: Yeah, and, and the reason
this one came to mind is it's

the first time we had holiday
characters modeled in the likenesses

of real crew members on the ship.

Um, this was a naughty thing or
an unhealthy preoccupation for

Reginald Barclay on the show.

Like this is, this is how his character
was introduced, is he was addicted to

the holodeck, and he was very socially
anxious and he would work out those social

anxieties by going onto the holodeck and
make creating less threatening versions

of his coworkers to interact with.

Rob: I have, I have, I think I've
seen that episode or parts of it.

I mean, I love, uh, uh,
Dwight Schultz is incredible.

You know, he was, uh, Murdoch on
The A Team, for heaven's sake,

um, uh, my favorite character.

Um, and he's incredible.

And of course they brought
him back for, for Voyager.

So to go back to his inception.

Um, uh, wonderful, wonderful.

I do

Kevin: Yeah, the, this one's
worth a revisit for sure.

Um, it similar to A Space Adventure Hour,
the cold open is at first misleading.

I, I don't know if you felt the
same, but watching the, that that

cold open in A Space Adventure
Hour, I'm like, oh, they're on

the holodeck, or they're playing.

It's the, it's the characters we
know playing parts, but then we

reveal, we are revealed that they,
no, they are, they are simulations of

Rob: It was a big swing.

Yeah, it was a big swing
of going, you know.

You're there going, what is this?

I was there going, is this a holodeck?

Is this whatever?

And then you go, oh no, do you have to
wait until 10 minutes in to find out.

Kevin: Yes, and arguably completely
unnecessary to the episode.

Like we later saw the dailies from that
episode very briefly, and so that could

have all worked without that cold open.

The cold open was pure
fan service, obviously.

Um, but yeah, it did give you, there were
several moments of going, what is this?

Who are these?

What's the situation?

And uh, Hollow Pursuits is very similar.

The cold open is set in Ten Forward,
and, uh, Barclay is being told off

initially by LaForge and then by Riker
for not showing up on time or not doing

a good job, and then being insubordinate.

And, um, he ends up like decking Riker
in Ten Forward and sending him sprawling

across the table, all for the adoring
gaze of Deanna Troi, who's sitting in a

very low cut dress at one of the tables.

And it becomes clear at the end of
the, the scene that this was all a

holodeck recreation, but it starts very
every day, this could be a real thing.

So the, the moment where the
audience clues in that this isn't

a real day in the life on the ship,
uh, is an enjoyable, uh, moment.

So, yeah, that, that's very similar.

Um.

This whole episode is about that,
uh, that social anxiety and, um.

Picard, well, LaForge tries to get Barkley
transferred because he's always showing

up late and he's kind of stammery and uh,
and awkward at his job, and nobody likes

working with him, and he's unreliable.

And Picard says, well, how he's
been transferred from ship to

ship, this problem stops here.

He's your project now, LaForge.

And so LaForge has to make
friends with the, with the,

uh, uh, the misfit on the ship.

And, uh, in the end, Barclay saves
the ship, I, I, I'll say, and uh,

earns his place among the ranks.

At the very end of the episode, Barclay
walks out on the bridge of the Enterprise

in front of the whole bridge crew and
says, it's been a very tough decision,

but I've decided it's time to leave.

And they all say, you'll
always have a place here.

And he goes, I know, that's why
it makes it so hard to leave.

And then he says, computer end program.

And so it's bookended by scenes where
you, at first, think it's real and

then it's revealed that it's not.

So yeah, it's, it's a
masterfully written season.

This kind of stuff is
why I love TNG season

Rob: Um, now, uh, Barclay of
course, appeared, uh, throughout

the rest of, uh, Next Gen.

Kevin: Yeah.

Recurring guest character, and
then came back in Voyager, of

Rob: in Voyager, if I can remember, he
was holodecking as well to connect with.

He was going,

Kevin: At times, yeah.

He was kind of working in the lab that
was running the project to bring them

Rob: Yes.

And, and they could connect
somehow via a holodeck.

So yes.

Connected that way I seem to remember.

Yeah.

With the Doctor and, and the others.

Um, well, I, look, we've, we've just had
the best, and I'm here to bring the rest.

I am gonna, I'm gonna go to, after
I watched them again and uh, two

episodes in particular, I'm going,
yeah, these really aren't that good.

And I look back at the general consensus
and go, oh no, these are hated.

So

Kevin: Yeah.

Oh, well, that's all right.

I've brought some clunkers
this season as well.

Rob: So I am, uh, here to talk about,
we have mentioned before, but I don't

think we've gone into full detail.

We're gonna look at Fair Haven.

We are going to Star Trek,
Voyager, season six with Fairhaven

and their follow-up episode.

Yes.

They went back there for, uh, they
went back for, uh, Spirit Folk.

So yeah, that is, uh, they, they
are certainly two episodes, Kevin.

Kevin: Yeah, you have, you have
mentioned this one before in somewhat

admiring terms, I think just because
of the fact that, it allows our female

captain to indulge that, that, uh.

You know, you can't be with any of
your crew members as in a romantic way

because you're the captain of the ship
and the ship is stranded in the Delta

quadrant, but you have to be above it all.

And so what do you do with your perfectly
natural urges as a leader of people?

You go on the holodeck and you create
yourself a perfect, uh, country

husband and, and I think there
is something to be said for that.

And I don't know if it's just because
of the conversations you and I have

had about that, that aspect to this
stuff that I have ended up thinking of

these episodes as better than they are.

But I think, I also remember
a lot of Paris and Harry Kim

bumbling around with carts and,
and milk cows and things like that.

And there's a lot of, there's a lot
of filler in these episodes is my

Rob: They are very much the
generic, they're on the holodeck

and something goes wrong.

The first one, especially the something's
going wrong, but also there's a

nebula or something outside, so,
and it connects but kind of doesn't.

The second episode, uh, the Spirit Folk
is definitely the weaker of the two, and

that's very much the, that is, it's a,
it's, it's a trope played out many, many

times previously and better in other
episodes where the holograms become

aware that, you know, the visitors are
different and like Neelix looks different.

Yeah.

And they are the Spirit Folk.

They're very, the Irish accents are

Kevin: Oof,

Rob: there, are there somewhere.

Um, but in that first
episode, Mulgrew is dynamite.

She's great.

She is really good.

She is suave and sultry and playful.

Kevin: Is this the delete the

Rob: Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

And that, that holds, that I hold,
held that so high when I went

back to rewatch them both going,
yeah, that's pretty much only it.

Um, and there's a, there's a
thing that I keep on seeing.

She is bagging the hell outta
holograms and the doctor is

standing right there and he never,
she's again, but he is a hologram.

He's just, he's just, he's nothing at all.

And the doctor's going well, you
know, and, but she doesn't even

Kevin: I don't mean
you, we don't mean you.

Of

Rob: I wish she'd

Kevin: you're, you're one
of the good ones, Doctor.

Rob: I wish at least some point
after berating, holograms, she'd

just turn and do an obligatory, no
offense, she doesn't even do that.

Kevin: One of my favorite tropes
about holodeck episodes is when the

characters gracefully overlook something
that they cannot make sense of.

When the characters turn to each other
and talk about ship's business or their

mention their ranks or things like
that, and the holodeck characters just

go Uhhuh, I'm just gonna ignore that.

I really love

Rob: Yes.

Yeah.

And there's quite a few, like the
characters they set up, like the wonderful

actor who I've seen in many, many things,
um, like Fugitive and other type shows.

And I think he was in
The Inner Light as well.

He plays, he plays the local drunk who
never has enough money and always there

going, if you have a spare a farthing,
I might be able to get myself a drink,

oh I might need a couple of more.

Um, and the actor who plays, uh, Michael
Sullivan, like the love interest, is him

and Kate Mulgrew have wonderful chemistry.

Wonderful.

Kevin: He, he was cast for
his gravitas, I feel like.

And yeah.

Sold.

Sold the otherwise thin

Rob: Yes.

Uh, but the second one is quite dull.

Um, quite, quite bad.

It's just so generic.

It's just like you just there going,
we have done this so many times and so

better, and it's really dull and boring.

And all those elements that are in, you
know, Adventure Space, Time, uh, Hour, um,

is it played out like we're there going.

We've hit this in every single.

The only thing they didn't do is people
from the crew looking like, you know,

well holograms looking like the crew.

Um, so yeah.

But the part I was interested in
seeing that captain, female captain,

how does she cope in this situation?

Like there's a moment where Chakotay
comes in and there's a little

bit of awkward, is it jealousy?

Is she embarrassed?

Is she nerv?

Yeah.

Um, uh, but yes, she is very good
in it and her, her journey of

accepting the fact that, you know,
she's allowed to be a human being.

Um, but yeah, just all the shade and all
the negativity, deports, poor holograms.

Um, but yeah, the more and more I
see those Voyager episodes like Paris

and Kim, uh, are just, are just big
old nerds and they just, we give them

so much time and energy on that show
and like Paris is just such a dork.

Kevin: Oh yeah, putting the
black and white TV in, in his

quarters to watch by the bed.

Uh, like those kinds of
things, it's like, well.

I mean, I guess you're a space explorer, I
guess you, you work with computers a lot.

Your wife is an eng, is a chief engineer.

I suppose if the nerds of the future are
gonna be anywhere, they're gonna be here

and, and so it's true to the character.

But yeah, it, it has a weird feeling
of the, the time span between black and

white television and Tom Paris on Voyager,
the hundreds of years between them.

If you project that
into our reality, it's.

It's like, uh, I don't
know, what's the equivalent?

Having a 14th century entertainment
medium as your fixation in

Rob: Yeah.

Or possibly like us being ob obsessed
with sort of like the long boat,

um, era or sort of like, you know,
the high seas, like your Hornblower,

Hornblower, or master and commander
type thing where you're obsessed with.

Kevin: Yeah.

It's a bit ren fair.

Yeah, if you brought the
Renaissance Fair into your bedroom,

that's how nerdy we're talking

Rob: like, I know you're Canadian and
I've always wanted to know what's the

deal with Americans and ren fairs?

Kevin: Yeah.

I don't know either.

I only feel like I became
aware of it in the past

Rob: It's.

Kevin: I left North

Rob: Yeah, like even the episode of
The Simpsons, where it deals with.

Anyway, I digress.

It's weird.

Um, but yes, they're both very, they're
quite dull episodes and um, the first one

has some enticing stuff in it just because
Kate Mulgrew is just, god, she's good.

Gosh, she's amazing.

She's head and shoulders.

Her and Picardo are just head and
shoulders above most actors on that show.

Uh, and um, it's unfair, really.

And then you've got Jeri Ryan
coming in and she goes, well,

actually I'm pretty dang good too.

Um, but yes, her relationship with Michael
Sullivan is played out really nicely.

And yes, the famous line, I thought
it was lose the wife, but then yeah.

Kevin: Oh, it might be lose wife,

Rob: It is Delete the wife.

It was up there going, yeah.

When she said, delete the wife,
just the look in her face,

you're going, yeah, you did that.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: what you want.

Kevin: You get what you want.

Rob: So yes, we've gone from
the highs with Barclay to

the lows of the Spirit Folk.

Kevin: Ah, well, lots, there's, there's
even more holodeck out there, so we

might do a holodeck part three someday.

Who knows?

Rob: We've, we've touched some pretty
good ones, but there's still, like, I

even looked up holodeck episodes and there
look, there are quite, there's a long list

and we've bare barely scraped the surface.

Kevin: Yeah.

Uh, wow.

I I have no doubt there will at least
be some hollow simulations in Starfleet

Academy that might lead us there, though
my understanding is the, the the Academy

itself is a ship that lifts off and
goes on missions so that you can, like,

like doctors in a training hospital,
you actually get put in front of real

cases, these cadets actually go on real
diplomatic missions and they are kind of

accompanied by one of the real ships, but
they're the training ship that goes along

and then the saucer comes back to San
Francisco and docks on top of the tower.

Uh, so it'll be interesting.

Rob: That's a very Star Trek way of
instead of being Deep Space Nine, staying

in the one location, this is your way of
being Next Gen or Voyager by going out.

That's a very clever idea.

I like that.

Kevin: that's right.

Yeah.

Anyway, we'll see if, uh, we get a
holodeck, uh, part three out of that.

But until then,

Rob: hoping we get an episode
where Kevin Yank is happy.

I don't like

Kevin: I hope so too, Rob, I'm,
I'm starting to feel like maybe

I, I, I am holding Star Trek to an
impossible standard, and an unfair one.

Rob: Look, you wouldn't be the
first Star Trek fan to do that.

Kevin: Mm, yeah.

Uh, I am going.

My mantra for next week's
episode is just have fun.

Just enjoy the fun.

This is meant to be the
fun Star Trek series.

It's okay that it's all icing and no cake.

Rob: Exactly, exactly.

You have your sugar, have your sugar
crash five minutes after and have a little

Kevin: Yeah, that's right.

All right, well until then,
Rob, see you around the galaxy.

Rob: then can't wait.