Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Rob: Greetings, salutations,
hello and welcome back.

We here at Subspace Radio are
very, very excited to be returning

to some Strange New Worlds,
for the first time in two years

Kevin: How long have I been asleep, Rob?

Rob: We have been asleep for a couple
of months, but we have been sleeping

on Strange New Worlds for two years.

Kevin: How many, how many intervening
seasons of Star Trek has there been?

There was the end of Discovery,
so there's discovery season five

and two seasons of Lower Decks.

Rob: seasons of Lower Decks and I think
we had a Prodigy in there as well.

Kevin: A Prodigy, but
Picard was done before

Rob: Yes, Picard was done.

So we've done, uh, three seasons of
animation and uh, uh, one season,

uh, of a show in its death throes.

Kevin: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yowie zowie.

Well, this the, this is the new normal.

This is the new normal Rob.

Um, enjoy it while it lasts, 'cause uh,
it'll be a while till, I guess, Starfleet

Academy, the next thing we get to enjoy.

Rob: Exactly, yes.

But they are filming season four.

Kevin: Yeah.

And they've told us, there's a
shortened season five to come later.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rob: Paramount!

Kevin: But here we are still less than
halfway through Strange New Worlds.

That's, that's, you know, that's the
reality is there's more Strange New

Worlds ahead of us than behind us.

Rob: Yes.

And we have had to wait a very long
time for the return of a, you know, uh,

now the conclusion of, uh, Hegemony.

Kevin: Oh, they did it.

They did it just like they did it in,
uh, The Best of Both Worlds part two.

And now the conclusion
was the exact wording.

Rob: Anson Mount did a
very good Majel Barrett.

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

Rob: So, yes, we are back and
we're gonna talk about two

episodes, Hegemony part two, and,

Wedding Bell Blues.

Kevin: Yeah.

No beating around the bush for us.

We're just gonna tell you what we've seen.

Rob: So let's get into it.

Uh, first impressions,
uh, Hegemony, part two.

Did it live up to the two year hype
of how to conclude, uh, a cliffhanger?

Kevin: I don't know.

That's a tall odor.

I don't, I don't know if I can
say this was worth waiting two

years for, but it was good.

I think they stuck the landing.

This is a worthy second part.

It's we, you know, the, the annals of pop
culture are full of cliffhangers that,

uh, were not worth it by the payoff.

And here, I think, you know, they
did justice to what they set up.

They, they delivered
everything they promised.

Uh, the stakes were, were justified.

Rob: Yes, and they like ratcheted it up.

So it's sort like from the previous
season, the episode was kind of

contained on that planet with a
little bit of interference from

the outside, from the Federation.

But this is sort of like
taking that and expanding it.

So Pike had issues on multiple fronts.

He had to deal with Batel being
infected, his, his team being, um,

uh, beamed aboard with the colonists.

How is he gonna survive?

He's been called back.

All this type of stuff is happening
and that ratcheting up of how, and,

and Anson Mount was incredible in that
moment as Pike going, it's too much.

I dunno how to handle this.

Kevin: Yeah, I rewatched part one, like
the day before part two came out, and

that was my impression as well, is like
they really, they gave that man a lot

to worry about because he was mostly, he
was mostly absent for season two and like

that, that finale was in some ways the
most Anson Mount or Captain Pike we saw.

We saw more of him in that finale
episode, I felt than in the

entire season that preceded it.

In, in, in total.

I don't even if that math exactly bears
out, but that's what it felt like.

And so they, they gave us him a
season's worth of stress all in one

episode as well, is what it felt like.

Rob: Exactly.

And great, um, great, uh, troubleshooting
with the, with the bridge crew.

Tried to figure things out.

I was particularly impressed because that,
like we've said, it has been two years.

How seamlessly it flowed from it pretty
much follows on the second the previous

episode finishes and in reality, we've had
two two years of, um, of, of, of waiting.

But the actors were on the top
of their game and just moved

on without a beat, uh, missing.

Kevin: I don't know if this is true,
but it felt like the production value

went up a notch again, this episode.

There were moments where I was
just sitting with my jaw open

going, the money that is being
spent with each passing second of

what I'm watching is unfathomable.

Uh, they, yeah, they, they spent
their time well, is is what I'll

say about that two year break.

Rob: Yeah, they really, uh, also focused
in on the ensemble nature of the show.

So split across multiple different
locations, multiple different story arcs.

So we had Spock and Chapel
resolving their stuff.

We had great character moments with,
you know, um, La'an finally figuring

out what to do with this damage
from, from, uh, the Gorn before.

And her moment of realization
going, we are gonna save everybody,

was an incredible turning point
for her as a character who's been

so shadowed by that darkness.

Um,

Kevin: This really was, it was
the second part of this season two

finale to the point where like the
next episode we're about to talking

about has a time jump before it.

And it really feels like season three
only starts with Wedding Bell Blues.

This was the end of season two, very
much, and all of the, the story arcs

that concluded, including the Goren
threat, to all appearances, um, it

really was a, a great big full stop.

The other thing I'll say about this
second parter is it, it also echoes

Best of Both Worlds Part two, in that
it didn't feel completely pre-planned.

There were things established or
set up in the first part that I

felt like were dropped or, or were,
were fake outs for the second part.

In the first part, there was a lot of
hand wringing about are the Gorn monsters.

Or is monster just a word for
someone you don't understand yet?

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Yeah, and that felt like it was
setting up a very Star Trek idealistic,

um, view of like, okay, well inevitably
we are heading towards a place where we

come to some understanding with the Gorn.

But in the end, the, the, I think
they get treated as monsters here.

They get, you know, tricked into
flying into the light bulb as

moths would to a flame, you know?

Uh, and, and that felt like a departure
from the direction or like a slight

course correction that I'm not sure they
would have scripted part one if they knew

that's where they were going, in part two.

The demarcation line that we saw in part
one as well, where the gorn kind of sent

out a signal and said, here's our line.

It goes conspicuously right through the
middle of the star system and cuts off the

Enterprise from the people on the planet.

That felt purposeful.

It felt like a plot point that
was intended to pay off as

something, but it didn't really.

Uh, this episode very quickly, we
went from, there's a line in space

to They're invading the Federation.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

And it did seem like, um.

Uh, there was the, the rush job of
trying to get everything concluded

so we could move on to starting the,
you know, the new season for real.

Um, I like the, the lesser of two evils,
so not going to out and out war or finding

a way to destroy them, finding that
way of putting them into hibernation.

So as Mount says, um, as Pike says,
um, I feel as if we've left this

for somebody else to deal with.

Kevin: Captain, his name is Captain Kirk.

He's on your ship, uh uh,
now and then you might know

Rob: You've met him
multiple times, even though

Kevin: He, he will be dealing
with an invasion on Cestus III.

The, the name of that star system
was very conspicuously highlighted

on the star chart that we saw in this
episode, and it was like, yeah, Cestus.

That's where the next
thing's gonna happen.

You already know that though.

Rob: Easter egg, Easter egg.

Um, it was great to see, um, Scotty
making his way into, uh, the crew and

his work with, um, uh, the wonderful
Carol Kane is just amazing that, that

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: the dy the dynamic between
the two of them is great.

Kevin: It really works.

Pelia felt like a loose thread in
all of season two to me, much as they

tried to establish her character.

Like famously, the actor herself said,
you really want me for a Star Trek role?

And they said, we want exactly your vibe.

Trust us.

We know what we're doing.

it didn't really make sense
to me until now, like the, the

two of them paired together.

Um.

Like I kind of start to see how Scotty
becomes Scotty because he had such a

wacky, weird teacher in Pelia, and the two
of them do have a great dynamic together.

So yeah, I am buying into Pelia
more now that Scotty's here

Rob: It is very much, yeah,

Kevin: complete the double act.

Rob: It's very much like what they
were doing with, um, with Uhura and um,

Kevin: Hemmer.

Yeah.

Rob: In, uh, season one.

This seems to be something if they keep
with that momentum, this is gonna be

something I think really special to
see how we get to that point where now

Scotty is a little bit unsure of himself,
doubts himself and how to get to that

point where he learns from, uh, Pelia
to go to, yep, I can solve any problem.

Got a deadline.

Get to that point.

Kevin: Well, you've jinxed it now.

Pelia is obviously getting infected with

Rob: Yep.

Kevin: and jumping off of
a, a, a shuttle bay door.

Yeah.

Her demise.

Oh, well.

Rob: The, the, the one thing standing out
for me over the last two seasons has been

the handling of the character of Ortegas.

Um,

Kevin: Oh yeah.

She was like, they, they played
with us and, and almost convinced

us that they were gonna kill her off
this episode, and it seemed possible

because she is so underserved.

Rob: Yes.

And a part of me is there going,
oh man, the killer off in the

first episode of the new season?

That would just rub it in, how badly
they've kind of, they haven't, they've

always, they've even been self,
almost self aware of it, of like,

Kevin: They obviously are.

They, they are, yeah.

They went, oh, we've done this wrong.

What can we do with that
before we correct the

Rob: Yes, and we will be talking about
it next episode, but because we're

doing it all in the one what they're.

What they have done with her or
what they're hopefully trying, what

I hope they're trying to do is,
um, they're going, Hey, finally

she's getting some character
work and getting something to do.

Kevin: She was really funny.

I love the, don't be rude, of
course I can fly it, uh, moment.

Rob: It's good to, and I, I always
like, I know his fate in the end,

but I love having Sam Kirk around.

Sam Kirk is doing is great fun.

The actor's doing a wonderful job, and
that dynamic with the team was good.

Kevin: He was even better
in the next episode.

No one likes your mustache.

Rob: Just the point, the point where you
said something and they went, why would

you say that you've jinxed us, Sam Kirk?

Kevin: I have to say the, the dark
bridge when it was like red alert

and, and, and things were at their
darkest in this episode, it really

gave original series vibes to me.

Like when you turn the lights off
on that set and all you see is the

red strip lighting, it suddenly
feels just like that bridge in the

sixties when it was in submarine mode.

Like in, uh, Balance of Terror
when they turn the lights down

low on both those sets, suddenly I
feel like they are the same place.

And it was really satisfying.

Yeah.

Um, and then, yeah, right at the
end Pike, uh, getting down on

his knees to say a prayer next
to, uh, next to Batel's bedside.

Rob: I really.

Kevin: That felt significant
in Star Trek to me.

Rob: Because it has been.

Kevin: They tend to avoid Christianity.

Rob: Oh, religion, in any
human religion in any way.

They more than happy to talk
about, uh, the Bajorans' religion

or, um, the, the belief of the
Klingons and stuff like that.

But, um, uh, it has been dropped before.

I know it was in, uh, Those Old Scientists
Pike mentioned his, uh, you know, his

background and his relationship with
his dad and, you know, hint hints of it

there, but for me, it was a powerful,
beautiful moment of like, this is, you

know, and for me as someone who grew up
watching, uh, and falling in love with,

um, the Planet of the Apes movies, those
movies dealt a lot with the balance of

science and religion and, um, Star Trek
hasn't really dealt with that from a

human point of view of that Christianity
or Buddhism or, um, any type of, you

know, um, belief system on Earth and
how that connects within the Federation.

So to have that moment, um, was a
beautiful little, little tease, little

taster of, um, uh, how Pike was at
this point of, of, uh, the crisis.

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

It felt, um, it felt out of the ordinary
to me for what I'm used to in Star

Trek, but also it feels like Star Trek
growing in response to the culture.

Like in the sixties when Gene Roddenberry,
no doubt in the show bible outlawed

any mention of God or Christianity,
um, it was because that was a cult,

uh, a countercultural act at the time.

And these days it feels like almost
like acknowledging people's religious

beliefs, that there is a variety
of those, including the Christian

faith is itself a countercultural

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: That yeah.

That is just another form of
inclusion that is the, the, the

consistent gospel, if you will,
uh, Star Trek has always preached.

Rob: And I think, I think
that's a good way to look at it.

It has been quite inclusive, especially
within the new era of, um, Star

Trek, especially since Discovery came
back, that has caused a lot of ire

amongst, uh, more traditional fans.

But to include all.

Is, um, a great statement, uh,
from, from Star Trek down to going,

yes, we are inclusive of, uh, all
different types of identification

and, and cultures and stuff.

And that also includes, uh, faith
as well in a, it not in a major way.

They have, obviously it's not
shaped around an entire episode

or a story or an arc, but to have
that moment, it's a nice little nod

and it may come back, it may not.

We'll, uh, we'll see how it goes.

Kevin: So I'll say this was a,
really well executed second part.

It stuck the landing.

I won't go as far as to say, like this
is a, a classic episode that I'll be

rewatching over and over again, but
it was satisfying, well executed.

It made me remember
why I missed this show.

Rob: Yeah, I, I, I really liked it.

I, I, I liked the intensity of it.

I liked the, the stakes were high.

Um, and, uh, the, the, the whole
team working as a unit so well.

They're in their characters now.

Whether they have a decent amount of
time or not, they are living, breathing

their characters, their relationships.

And to be that fully fleshed only
after like 20 episodes and two

seasons is a credit to, to them
as a, as, as a, as a company.

Kevin: Speaking of the company, the
company expanded a bit in our next

episode, which is Wedding Bell Blues
and uh, yeah, if you're keeping count,

and I was, we got Ortegas' brother,
we got a new nurse, and we got a new

bartender, or even two, depending
how you count them in this episode.

Rob: we got the, uh, the entrance
finally, of a, um, uh, quite

important figure within the classic
series, um, uh, cannon with, uh,

with, uh, Roger Korby has arrived.

Kevin: Hmm.

Or as, uh, I saw it.

Someone mention online in a chat room.

I follow, uh, Dogtor
Corby was in this episode.

Rob: Is, is that the Irish
tones coming through Dr. Korby?

Kevin: No, it's the, uh, it's
the bulldog he was turned

Rob: That's right.

He was turned into a beautiful bulldog.

I thought it was a thought, it was a,
a strained Irish accent because he's

got, he's got that lith to his voice.

Kevin: For the record, not at all irish,
that character in the original uh, series?

Rob: I was wondering, I was wondering
if it was any ties there or, Nope.

They just made, they're playing loose
and fancy free with their cannon, which

a lot of people will be, it will be
the hill that they live and die on.

Kevin: Yeah, I, I mean, yeah, the,
the, the number of things you have to

just go with and go, oh, well, it's a
different version of the same story.

Um, yeah, just go along with it.

Rob: I think that's where we're, I
think we settled on that near the

end of last season or something.

Kevin: I, I do have to say it
was a little disappointing.

When he appeared.

I was like, oh, who did they get and
how does he echo the original character?

And they got someone who's attractive
with an interesting accent who

would sell to today's audiences.

And, as far as I can tell, no
thought was given to linking him

to the original character, who
was a single episode guest star.

Rob: Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

More to serve a point to the
plot as opposed to, yeah.

Kevin: There was definitely more
linking the two versions of Trelane

that we got to meet, though.

So We had our good friend Rhys
Darby, take on the, uh, the role

of Trelane, our, our proto-Q.

Rob: Which

Kevin: the

Rob: which has only been connected
via novelization, or Yes.

Written by an author who's Peter
David, who sadly passed away quite

Kevin: He away, uh, during
this hiatus very recently.

I read a lot of Peter David Star Trek
comics back in the and one or two

of his novels, uh, I've read a lot
of his non-Star Trek stuff as well.

He was a, just a great
genre fiction writer.

He, um, did some original stuff,
but he was best known for like,

taking other fandoms and like
finding stories within the cracks.

And I'd say no one ever did
it better than Peter David.

So, yeah, I do miss him.

Rob: Yes, yes.

Our, our thoughts were with him
and his family, and the people

who knew him and loved him.

Um, had you read that, uh, novelization,
which, uh, connects Trelane and um, Q?

Kevin: No, I didn't.

I have only read the fan theories
over the years of, of, uh,

you know, they are similar.

There are diff they are
differences in some ways.

I, I went back inspired by this episode.

I went back and watched the Squire of
Goos, uh, from the original series,

which is the episode in which we, the
crew of the enterprise meets Trelane

and Spock does not recognize him,
but they account for that in Wedding

Bell Blues by making Trelane um,
wear a, a mask or a a, a disguise.

Everyone else sees him as
the Vulcan bartender and then

the c wedding planner only.

We get to see him as Rhys Darby, who looks
a lot or, or certainly echoes the vibe of

Trelane in the original series episode.

So you can, forgive Spock and the
other crew members in, in common

with the two episodes for not
recognizing Trelane when he returns.

Rob: Fast and loose cannon.

Kevin: The thing that doesn't quite stack
up and that you have to kind of like

just go with is a big plot point in the
original episode is that Trelane is all

dressed in, uh, like period military garb.

He lives in a, in a castle on a, on
his planet that's filled, filled with

recreations of, um, human history junk.

Uh, and the crew makes a point of going,
oh, well, this lines up because he

is this many light years from Earth.

And so if he is watching Earth
at this distance, this is the

version of earth that he's seeing.

And they also talk about how none of
the food has any flavor and, and so

like the, the, the version of Earth
that he recreates is without substance.

It, all of the, all of the shape,
all of the forms, but none of its

substance is, is what Spock says.

Rob: It is

Kevin: So that doesn't quite line
up with this new story where Trelane

visited Starbase One and participated
in a human wedding and helped cater

and pour drinks at a bar does not line
up with someone who does not Earth's

Rob: Now thi, thi, this guy knew
everything about all the substances,

um, if you know what I mean.

Um, so yeah, this is a, this is a
big flip, this episode a and it's,

it's just a reminder of you've missed
a Strange New Worlds for two years?

Let's just remind you
of how episodic we are.

Let's, let's,

Kevin: And how nostalgia driven it can be.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: basically borrowed from two
different episodes of the original series

with Roger Korby from What Are Little

and Trelane from the Squire of Gothos,
and went we'll knit those two like

satisfying references for fans into, a,
a paper thin episode that ends exactly

the same way as the Squire of Gothos did.

And the fans will delight with their
nostalgia berries, and job done.

Like that is the obvious criticism of this

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Kevin: think the, the.

The, the journey is more satisfying
than that conclusion would, would paint.

I think like it was a fun ride this
episode, the, the moments of, you

know, Spock punching, uh, Korby in
the face and then feeling bad about

it when he realizes what's going on.

And so he's, he lies in bed with his
guilt until Korby regains consciousness,

like all of that business, all of the
costumes at the wedding, all of the

Sam Kirk in, uh, a very traditional
wedding outfit, while everyone else

is wildly dressed in space garb,
all of that was really delightful.

So I think, uh, like ironically,
this episode was more

about style than substance.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah, I can definitely, uh, see that.

And also, uh, a certain actor returning
to voice a certain, uh, God-like orb, uh,

Kevin: Yes, I have not fully researched
what they're establishing there, but I

believe when we last saw Q talking about,
uh, reproduction in the Q continuum on

Star Trek: Voyager, he said something
along the lines of the last child born

in the continuum was born like two
millennia ago, or something like that.

And my understanding is if you do
the math with Trelane says about his

age in this episode, those line up.

So you could say, Trelane is the
last child born in the Q continuum

before Captain Janeway helps Q with
and Q with their, their relationship

problems in Star Trek: Voyager.

Rob: Rhys Darby did an excellent
job, as always, bringing in

that energy of a certain type
of actor filling in that role.

I get this, I I got a weird sense of like,
um, uh, Rain Wilson coming in as Mudd.

Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

It's satisfying when a well-known
actor jumps into your cannon

and validates it by their

I was like, Rhys Darby
knows what Star Trek is.

Uh, I don't know how serious a
fan he is, but I'm just happy

you're in the tent, you know?

Rob: Yes.

Um, and, uh, uh, really interesting
stuff with, uh, Ortegas's brother who's

been mentioned before, showing up now.

And, uh,

Kevin: Was it interesting?

I'm yet to be

Rob: uh, I was kind of, I was kind of
liking the whole big sister and, um, uh,

Uhura flirting type of stuff, dynamic.

Um,

Kevin: It felt a little
paint by numbers to me.

Like saying, rather than telling.

I don't, I don't believe
there's an attraction there.

I was told there was an attraction there.

I don't believe it annoys her.

I was told it.

So I like, I'm waiting to feel it,
but they're setting up for something

that I hope goes, goes somewhere fun.

Rob: Well, speaking of feeling, I really
felt, uh, the exploration of the damage,

uh, done to Ortegas physically and
also mentally, specifically mentally.

I really started to feel that and I'm
there going, I'm in this, I'm in for this.

If you are doing this with
Ortegas this season to

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: focus on her and focus on her in
this way, especially because she wanted

to go on away missions and for this away
mission, I do in inverted commas, she, she

saw how serious that type of stuff is and

Kevin: We had a hint of it last season
when, in that episode where everyone was

like forgetting their, their, who they
were, their identities and, and like

she went into this spiral of fear until
she was reminded that she flies the ship

and that's what allowed her to kind of
like her teeth and get back to work.

But like, that was a hint of it.

It feels like they're going, that was
interesting enough that we are, we are

going to do the full version of that now.

Rob: Yes.

And then becoming a mantra.

So it takes away the, the potential
shallowness of it being an almost

humorous of going, that's all she is,
but it becoming a part of, you know, this

traumatic event and how that affects her
is a really powerful way of inverting

that type of mantra, so it doesn't become
like a, a laughing stock type of moment.

I'm kind of, I think we're
done with lovesick Spock.

Hope, I hope we're done
with lovesick Spock.

Yeah.

I think that was kind of, um.

It's more of a season two thing and we
had a nice little resolution, I think, but

three months later and he still lovesick.

There was some nice humorous, awkward
moments that everyone was reading

the room, uh, except some people.

Um, but yeah, I'm ready
for that to be over.

Mind you, it was cute at the start where
he's looking at two of the exact same

shirts and which one should he wear?

That was cute.

Kevin: It was cute, but I also went,
oh, this is one of those episodes.

Rob: Yeah.

Um,

Kevin: This is one of those episodes
where you're asked to buy into everyone

being a little stupider than they are most
episodes, but it's, it's for comic effect.

Rob: I didn't get to bring it
up, but it was, it played out

really nicely last episode.

Um, I really love Ethan Peck, and
I love what he's doing with Spock.

And there was some beautiful moments.

This episode, you couldn't really judge
it because was, it was the light one.

Um, but those moments when he punches
Korby and that snaps him out of it moment.

Kevin: The in the bar with, please do
go on, I've recently become a student

of romance, or something like that.

Like, you're like, oh man, you
are getting hurt, my friend.

Um, you feel for him?

Yeah, I, do agree.

That stuff works well.

Rob: For me, yeah.

I'm seeing elements that I feel a lot of
versions of Spock after the definitive,

uh, Leonard Nimoy was always great at you.

He wasn't robotic.

He was never robotic.

Even in the sixties.

Watching episodes, I'm there going, he is
bringing so much shade and color and tone.

That's why he was a master
actor, an incredible actor.

Underrated in, in much in many ways.

But he brought that out so much in the
original films that beautiful nuance.

And Ethan Peck is getting that now.

He didn't really, he had elements of
it in, um, in elements of Discovery

and a little bit of season one, but
he's at that point now, peak Spock,

where he can really show that, uh,
that wonderful color and range.

So I'm really loving,

Kevin: I'm ready for him to start
to mature and season though I agree

with seen, we've seen young Spock.

Let's,

Rob: Let's let, let's get
Love six Bach out of the way.

I loved his son, his scenes with La'an.

I think that's, there's a really
good relationship between the two of

them and La'an's like breaking free
of her guilt and darkness to see a

side of her, which um, is wonderful.

Kevin: I'll be interested to see how
that con character continues to evolve,

because I feel like La'an has established
in this series and actor, Christina

Chong, uh, are, are, are very different

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: Uh, Christina Chong is a girly girl
who wants to dress pretty and dance, and

Rob: Sing and dance and musical

Kevin: takes her doggy
with her everywhere.

And she's a singer.

Yeah.

And, and La'an is this damaged, guarded,
um, very serious, powerful character.

I feel like with La'an we've been
getting to see what Tasha Yar could

been if they really invested in

Rob: That's a great way of looking at it.

Yeah.

Kevin: and I'm really liking it.

But with this episode, like, and it
happened previously in the episode

where they all played the, the storybook
fantasy characters, Christina Chong broke

through in the dancing scenes here and
I was like, uh, it is not quite La'an,

I don't think, so I'll be interested
to see how they continue to, to balance

between what Christina Chong wants to
do and what La'an on the character wants

Rob: And that's always a bit
of a danger when you are on

a TV show for far too long.

The writers pick up on the actors'
traits and, uh, getting to that

point of do you lose your character
to the, uh, the actor or, yeah.

Kevin: I'm okay with the character
evolving, but like, I think back

to the musical episode last season
and her song, I've, I've listened

to it a few times because it's one
of my favorites from, you know, an

uneven episode, as we've discussed.

There are a few songs that are
highlights for me and, hers, um.

Is basically a song saying,
what if I did open up?

What if I did become someone
who wears their heart on their

sleeves and feels their feelings?

No, that's not me.

Point of the song is, that's not me.

That's not the kind of person who I am.

If I'm gonna be myself, I need to accept
that I am not someone who wears their

heart on their I never will be, uh, even
though I might wonder how that might be.

Um, so I, I really love that
statement of this character's purpose.

And every time the Christina Chong, uh,
girly girl stuff breaks through, I hope

that doesn't sound derogatory, but I
feel like it is, it is not the promise

we've been made about that character.

Rob: Yes.

And yeah, it's that finding that
balance of the actor and the character.

Um, so yeah, there's been
a lot of negativity online.

I'm trying to cut that out.

I, I, I loved it.

I thought it was a very, yeah, like
you said, it was style over substance,

but I had a lot of fun with it,
and as soon as it started went, all

right, this is the episode we've got.

Kevin: I, I'd say I liked it less than
Hegemony part two, but my partner,

she was like, oh, fi this is good.

Like Hegemony.

I was like, oh, when
is this gonna be over?

The Shooty, Shooty Bang Bangs?

This was like character
comedy and she lives for.

So, so, um, yeah, different Star
Trek, different episodes for folks.

Rob: And that's what
we love about the show.

Kevin: We picked bartenders as
our topic from these two episodes

because wedding Bell Blues here has
not one, but two new bartenders.

We have Rhys Darby posing as a
Vulcan, and then we have the, uh, the

three armed character who's, who's,
uh, race, I forget the name of,

Rob: I forget the race off as well, but
they did appear in the animated series.

Kevin: Yeah.

And then again, in Lower Decks.

It is… Edosians.

Rob: I am glad this Edosian
doesn't sound like the Edosian in

the animated series 'cause that

Kevin: Oh,

Rob: grates on my soul.

Kevin: Would you like
it shaken or stirred?

Rob: See, I no.

You could speak like that
to me for hours, Kevin Yank.

That was, that was music to
my ears as opposed to the

dissonance that that all right.

It was, yeah.

It was so odd.

Um, but that was a, yeah.

Lovely little introduction
in a, a flare like that.

And a character was established very
quickly within like a minute or two, so.

Kevin: Very quickly.

The, the, the recruiting practices
for, for non-commissioned staff

aboard Starships are a little strange.

But what else is new?

Star Trek's always a little strange
in the margins of their society.

So yeah, this was fun.

I, I also, I just liked, liked the moments
we've been given in these two episodes of,

um, Pike and Number One, working as team.

The captain and first office
dynamic has been lacking with pike's

absence last season and we've had it
again, and it's really satisfying.

Rob: Um, Rebecca Romijn is incredible.

And, um, for someone who came from
modeling into acting and, uh, what she.

Has done throughout her career
and what she's doing now, this

is, this is Peak Rebecca Romijn.

This is re, Rebecca
Romijn at her best, doing

Kevin: She's underplaying everything
and it's really effective.

Rob: And, but she's being
there for, for Pike.

She's being there for a crew,
which we've seen before.

But like you said, the dynamic between
the two of them has been missing

because Anson Mount has been AOL,
you know, AWOL with daddy stuff.

Um, but she's just outstanding and
doing a fabulous tribute to a character

created by Majel Barrett obviously.

Kevin: Yeah.

Yeah.

So we'll see how this, this
new bartender plays out along

with the new nurse in sick bay

Rob: Yeah, they'll love

Kevin: uh, and Ortegas's brother
also who seems to be joining the

Rob: They like each other.

Didn't you tell they liked each other?

Ortegas's brother and
Uhura like each other.

Kevin: I believe I was told that, yes.

Um, so.

Let's talk about bartenders, because this
is not the first bartender to join a cast.

Uh, some of them have been
baked in from the beginning.

Some of them have been strapped
on halfway through, them

were just little guest stars.

Uh, so I, I, I have a feeling I know which
bartender comes to your mind and foremost.

Let's

Rob: Let's start with Quark.

Yeah.

He's, uh, Quark's an interesting one
because he doesn't, yeah, he can be

a bartender, but mostly he's sort of
like the owner of the saloon, really

in the wild west, if we're doing that.

But he has, he does have those moments
of sort of like serving a drink, uh,

filling in the role of what a bartender
does as counselor or encourager or,

uh, you, uh, an open ear to listen.

Um, in many ways, Vic Fontaine
becomes that more in the seasons.

Kevin: Was gonna say the same.

'cause, 'cause um, he has his
moments, but quirk usually is not

there to give you good advice.

Rob: No, no.

He kind of, his antagonistic relationship
with Odo develops into, you know,

they say what they mean to each other
and or if there's a problem they

help each other out in, you know, in
underhanded ways so that they can still

keep up that facade of antagonists.

Um, but the role of, the traditional
role of that bartender support,

you know, font Vic Fontaine,
when he came in, he did that.

He did it for Nog, he did it for Odo
to, to finally gum up the courage to,

you know, say his feelings towards Kira.

Um, whereas yeah, quo was
more of the antagonistic, uh,

force within, um, the bar.

Kevin: Nevertheless, I, I loved him in
those moments where he was behind the bar

and wiping the table or, or haranguing
his, his staff for, for not doing a bad

Rob: His relationship

Kevin: he was actually doing his job.

It was so fun to watch.

Rob: Hi.

Uh, his relationship with
Morn was always good.

Always.

You know, Morn was the first
to enter, last to leave.

Um, creating that, uh, that atmosphere of
what Quark's is and would be to go to, um.

Armin Shimmerman was, you
know an incredible performer.

And I love stories of every time there was
a qua a, um, her faren focused episode in

Deep Space Nine, he would always invite
all the ferengis around to his house.

Um, they'd have dinner.

Him and his wife would serve dinner
and they'd do a script reading, go

through their characters like the night
before, the first day of shooting or

uh, that type of stuff I love hearing
about, the community that he built up.

And in many ways, Armin Shimmerman was
the open bartender, inviting people in,

uh, against character, so bless him.

Kevin: I loved how that character
occasionally departed from our, our core.

Crew because he was not fully bought
into the ideals of the Federation.

I mean, that was the power of that
show, is that there were cast regulars

who were not part of a Starfleet crew.

And therefore, every once in a
while, their ethics, their morals,

their, uh, loyalties, diverged
from, uh, the rest of the characters

Rob: And dare, dare I say, makes
it a bit more interesting to have a

character like Garak a, a character
like Quark who is not following that

procedure than take us to places we
would, you know, not normally see.

Kevin: My favorite scene of Quark's
is a little moment that almost

didn't make it onto the screen.

It's from The Way of the Warrior and
it's the root beer scene with Garak.

Rob: Yeah,

Kevin: Uh, and, uh, you know,
it's, it's The Way of the Warrior.

It's this huge high stakes
like invasion day sort of,

Rob: multiple episodes.

Kevin: And that episode was coming in
short, so they had to write some extra

material for it at the last minute.

And this scene is what they wrote.

Uh, and Quark and Garak are at
the bar and Quark goes, I want

you to try something for me.

Take a sip of this.

And Garak goes, What is it?

A human drink.

It's called root beer.

I don't know.

Come on.

Aren't you just a little bit curious?

And Garak takes a sip,
wincing as he tastes it.

What do you think?

Garrick goes, it's vile!

I know.

It's so bubbly, cloying, and happy.

Garak says, Just like the Federation.

And you know what's really frightening?

If you drink enough of
it, you begin to like it.

Garak says, It's insidious.

Just

Rob: the Federation.

Kevin: Ugh.

Rob: I remember that now.

I remember that.

Yeah.

Beautiful scene.

Kevin: And after they shot the episode,
they had too much, and there was a

real discussion about cutting that
scene because it was last in first out.

But they were so happy with what it
had done, what it said about these

characters, about how the way they viewed
the Federation, not in a black and white,

good versus bad way, but as one of the
shades of gray they get to choose from.

Um, so they kept it in.

I'm so glad it's my favorite Quark moment.

Rob: I love Deep Search Nine.

Have I ever told you that, Kevin?

I,

Kevin: feeling

Rob: um,

Kevin: You don't need to tell me.

You don't need to tell me that.

I could feel it, Rob.

Rob: Yeah, that's right.

I, I, I, I, show, don't tell.

Um, it's a good thing we've got a
screen, so I feel like I know which

bartender you'd like to talk about next.

Kevin: Are we talking about Guinan?

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: The great Oscar
winning Whoopi Goldberg.

Kevin: Yes.

Rob: Who's so important, so
famous, they literally could

go, I want to be on the show.

And they went,

Kevin: Look.

Yeah,

Rob: I'll create a character you.

Kevin: I don't know how much Reese Darby
knows his Trek, but when Guinan joined

the show, it was known she was a fan could
not wait to be let onto that starship.

Rob: And it, it's safe to say during
this time, like late eighties, she,

'cause she didn't join until se

Kevin: 1988, this se, season two, episode

Rob: Season two.

Yeah.

Um, this is Whoopi Goldberg at
the height of her popularity.

This is just before she

Kevin: not, she wasn't, she was slumming
it as much as she ever did in her career.

Rob: If, if anything

Kevin: did this entirely for
the love, not the paycheck.

Rob: Everyone going Whoopi Goldberg.

And, and this was definitely of the time
where film was held in a higher esteem.

And if you were doing,

Kevin: She was Sister Act.

She was, she was

Rob: Yeah, is just before she got, um,
her Oscar for Ghost, which was 1990.

Um, but at the moment, yeah, obviously
things are different now with escape

of where streaming and TV series
are held, if not more regarded

for its dramatic work for actors.

And so you can go from
film and television.

But back in the eighties, like in
the seventies, if you were doing

TV that was seen as slumming it.

Um, and for a, a film star to go and
do, like if you're a theater actor, oh.

But if you got TV oh, that's good.

But if you, and if you're a
TV actor who could move in

the film, you are a superstar.

But if you're a film actor
coming back down to TV.

Your career was over.

So for Whoopi Goldberg to just go, I
love this show so much, I don't care.

I wanna be in it in any way.

And for them to create this character
just for her is still, uh, it

still gives me tingles of joy.

Kevin: It was, I would say a rough time
to join Star Trek: The Next Generation.

It had a very bumpy first season.

Famously, the, the writing, um,
staff entirely left after the

Rob: that's

Kevin: another recent Star
Trek series we know of.

But there's a, there's a documentary
called, uh, Chaos on the Bridge that

some people say is not exactly true,
but if half of what it talks about

is true, it was, it was a rough place

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: season one, TNG.

Um, chaotic to say the least.

But season two of NextGen
came back with a confidence.

They redesigned the uniforms, um,
Crusher left and was replaced by

Pulaski in this very same episode.

And, uh, they built, they built
the shuttle bay deck and they

built Ten Forward for Guinan.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: So really like this is when
people ask me, should I, should

I watch Next Gen? I'll say, look,
Next Gen is my favorite Star Trek.

But you could skip the entire
first season and just read the

cliff notes of what that was.

Because there are definitely, it's first
season you gotta, you gotta grit your

teeth through some pretty awkward moments.

Rob: Yeah, I've always like, I've, I've
always wanted to go the full dive, but

I've always come in from, it's like with
me trying to read Lord of the Rings,

I always, I never get outta Hobbiton
and I can never get past, uh, you know,

season one, I've barely make a dent.

But when you throw me episodes for
me to watch from later seasons, I'm

going, ah, I can watch this every week.

Kevin: So, yeah, it's a cliche,
but I think season two, episode one

where Guinan joins the ship is really
where Star Trek Next Gen gets good.

It finds its confidence, um, and
there's a new creative team behind it.

There's new money behind it, and it really
is the show they set out to make, but

didn't quite get there in season one.

Rob: Yes.

Kevin: Uh, so yeah.

And um.

Guinan is Guinan right away as well.

There's no beating about the bush.

They knew what that character was
gonna be from the beginning, right

to her guest appearance in in Picard.

Um, it is the same character throughout.

She does one thing and one thing well.

She tells you annoying anecdotes that end
up that, that are on the surface about

her, but they're actually about yourself,

which I think is a really
a bartender thing to do.

Lemme tell you a, that
reminds me of a story.

Rob: I remember this guy that
once knew is, uh, reminds me a

little bit of you right there.

Kevin: And, uh, yeah.

In this episode, because Crusher has left,
one of the plot points is that Wesley is

planning to leave the ship to go and be
with his mother at Starfleet Headquarters.

But he is sad about leaving the Enterprise
and at, at a point in this episode,

he is standing in the big windows of
Ten Forward looking out at the galaxy.

And Guinan walks up
and offers him a drink.

And he says, no thank you.

So she offers him another drink
and he says, no thank you.

And she offers him a third drink
and he, he cracks it and goes,

I've refused you three times.

Why do you keep doing that?

And she goes, because it's expected of me.

Don't you always do
what's expected of you?

Her, her point of course is
that if he doesn't wanna leave

the ship, he shouldn't do it.

And so he decides to stick around.

Um, and that, like, she, she appears
briefly and then is in one meaningful

conversation alone with a member of
the cast who changes their minds about

something at the last minute thanks to
her advice, advice, her, her, very veiled

advice, um, is, is the thing that she
does again and again, right up to the

very last time we've seen that character.

Rob: Um, she did have.

In many ways a leading role in
Yesterday's Enterprise that was focused

episode solely on her, um, where
everybody else has forgotten them.

We've gone to an alternative dimension,
but because of Guinan's uh, uh,

history and her, um, her what race she

Kevin: pivotal in the, the,
the, her, her role in the plot.

But I would say that that is not
so much an episode about Guinan.

It's more about the people
whose lives are changed, uh,

for the better, for the worse.

Rob: It is very much

Kevin: Tasha Yar very much,

Rob: and she's there to facilitate
sort of like tell the characters why

they need to change and why they need
to do this, as opposed to this is

Kevin: Yeah, it's an exceptional
script for her because she

comes out and says it for once.

She says to Tasha,
you're not supposed to be

Rob: Yeah,

Kevin: Um, which is being that direct
does not come naturally to so that's the,

that's the exception that proves the rule.

Rob: She's very much, 'cause they,
it's like hint to the fact that she

is from a race that lives longer than
humans, that she's all and, and the way.

Kevin: an El-Aurian, the same as, uh,
uh, the doctor in, uh, Generations.

Rob: right, Malcolm, uh, McDowell, Soran.

Um, and yeah, having her in that
movie and without her, uh, headpiece

with her hair flowing down again, she
explains the nexus to, um, Picard.

Um.

Kevin: She is linked to many
pieces of Star Trek Next Gen lore.

She, she has a, like a barely explained
rivalry with Q. There's an episode where

Q comes aboard and she gets her hackles
up and, and it's like they, they are

races who hate each other preternaturally.

Really cool moment.

Um and the Borg.

The Borg destroyed her home world.

And so every time the Borg come
back, in a way, Guinan comes back,

or there's a reason to bring Guinan
back because she, she accepts

everyone for who they are except the
Borg who destroyed her, her home.

And, that is, a, an another
thing that she's connected to.

So yeah, like, I don't know if it's
just, she's our most famous actor,

so anytime something momentous
happens, we make, we'll make sure she

has feelings about it or, or what.

But yeah, I feel like she is in some
ways, uh, the hub, uh, at the center of

the spokes of Star Trek Next Gen Lore.

Rob: Yeah, it like it, it's never
been described as stunt casting.

Um, and I'm trying to think is,
you know, anyone bigger as a, a

movie star ever doing Star Trek?

I mean, I know there were rumors that,
um, Tom Hanks was offered to play to

be a Zephram Cochrane in First Contact.

Um, which I always thought, oh,

Kevin: Slater in Star Trek VI.

Rob: Well, I was just about to mention
the Ensign coming to wake up Captain Sulu,

um, or Ricardo Montalban coming back.

Um, yeah.

But um.

Kevin: But he was famous for
tv, not movies then as well.

So yeah, I think you're right.

Whoopi Goldberg is the most
famous Star Trek actor.

Rob: And even like in the, in the
Kelvin line ones like the villain for,

for the all three of the movies you
had Eric Banner, who's like a jobing

actor, but I wouldn't say a movie star.

He's done a lot of movies.

Um, then you've got Benedict Cumberbatch
who was just starting to ascend, but

even he's become more just not an icon,
but more of just a, a jobbing actor.

And then you've got Idris Elba,
who's a dropping actor as well,

and they haven't broken into that

Kevin: Funny, those, those like, um,
special guest stars in the movies

to me, for whatever reason, they
actually diminish those movies.

Rob: Right.

Kevin: almost as if like the movie
needs that star in order to make

it worthy of mass market attention.

Whereas in the TV appearances
when the stars appear on TV,

feel like they are uplifting the,
the, uh, property in a weird way.

I don't know why it works that
way in my brain, but it does.

Rob: No, I, I, I, I get that as well.

Especially, and it showed with Discovery.

Once you getting an actor like,
getting Michelle Yeoh, even though,

you know, at that point she hadn't won
an Oscar, but that was when, oh wow.

That's a big moment.

And Jason Isaacs as well in that regular
role and then bringing in Rainn Wilson

was, was a, a powerful move as well.

And Rhys Darby now.

Um,

Kevin: don't know if it's the commitment
it takes to be a part of a TV show.

It, it shows that like, I'm
not just here for paycheck.

I'm gonna do the hard work being
on series, uh, speaks to the level

of, you know, I'm known for my
movies, but I'm willing to do this

because I think Star is worthy.

Maybe that's

Rob: I think so.

I think that's a good way to look at it.

Kevin: Uh, before we go this week, I had
one more bartender I wanted to throw in

the mix when I hear the word bartender in
Star Trek, my mind immediately goes there.

And that is the unnamed bartender on
Deep Space Station K-7 in The Trouble

with Tribbles, and the beautiful little
clown scene he has right before the

bar fight, when Cyrano Jones tries
to buy a drink by trading a tribble.

And he goes a tribble.

A tribble?

And he just goes, A tribble.

And he just starts putting tribbles
on tribble a tribble, know.

And just, and the, the funny Star
Trek clown music is playing and

he makes a big pile of tribbles
and then he, he just looks at him.

And it's a, it's a unusual, silent,
mostly silent clown scene in the

middle of a Star Trek episode that
is by itself unusual, but this, this

was peak Star Trek is going somewhere
it doesn't normally go this moment.

And, uh, the, the actor, was named
Guy Raymond and I looked it up today.

Apparently he also played a bartender
in beer commercials around this

time, in which he commented on the
strange occurrences in his bar.

And so he was, he was typecast
as a bartender in a bar

where strange things happen.

Rob: But, um, with this particular
episode, he got to flex his muscles a bit

more and show his, uh, clowning prowess.

Kevin: Well, not that much 'cause
he was wearing a leather jacket.

As, as all the civilians in this
episode, they were wearing colored

leather jackets like I was the, the
imagined future civilian garb of the

Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That, that tracks, that tracks for me.

Um, so yeah, that's, uh, our exploration
of the first two episodes of, uh,

season three of Strange New Worlds.

We are back and we had a little, uh,
exploration of, uh, how those wonderful

bartenders, uh, make their way into
the hearts of not only the crew,

but fans of Star Trek, everywhere.

Kevin: It's good to be back and
it's good that the, with Less

Star Trek on tv, the stuff we are
getting feels good, feels like high

Rob: Well, yeah, we were, we were in, so
like we were in a good run for a while.

Like we had discovery
prodigy, um, uh, Lower Decks.

We were powering through.

And then when we, when we finished
the most recent, I think last

one we did was Lower Decks.

We went, oh, right, well, um, yeah.

Kevin: See you in six

Rob: And then nothing,
like nothing at all.

There's been, uh, uh, it, it's
been, it's been a wasteland,

uh, in the Badlands as it were.

Um, so yeah, and like you said
that we don't, not sure when, um,

Star Trek, acade, uh, Starfleet
Academy is, is occurring.

Um, so let's relish, um, the, the
remaining eight episodes we have to,

to get through of, um, uh, you know,
at least the most consistently rated

and from what I know on like Rotten
Tomatoes, it's the highest or, um,

highest rated, like, uh, critics
response reviews, I think of the show.

Kevin: Yeah.

Great.

Well, I think it, it earns it.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: All right.

Well, I missed saying it, Rob.

Until next week, I'll see you around the

Rob: Cannot wait until we
go into another adventure.