Subspace Radio: a Star Trek podcast

Kevin: Hello and welcome
back to Subspace Radio.

It's me, Kevin.

Rob: And me, Rob.

Kevin: And we're here to talk
about Star Trek Discovery,

Season 5, Episode 8, Labyrinths.

I love a good library.

I have to say, I've just, as soon as this
episode was teased, I was like, I am in.

Rob: A good, endless library.

Kevin: Mazes, books, knickknacks
on shelves, what could

Rob: Shelves of books that go to
infinity, different levels, you

know, spiral staircases up and
down, I love those, ladders you

have on a pulley system to move it

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, slide
along the wall on a track.

Rob: Yeah, Nothing more romantic
than a beautiful library.

Kevin: Now that you mention it, I
regret the missed opportunity of someone

with a phaser rifle sliding down a
wall on a ladder, taking out Breen.

Rob: Look, you're just making it even
harder for me to like Discovery now.

You've just given an awesome idea.

Why didn't they think of that?

Spent too much time in Breen cargo bays.

Kevin: Well, why don't you give us your
high level thoughts on this episode, Rob?

Rob: Yes, so we, uh, we got to the point
where they've gone to get the final piece

of the Progenitor's tech, and of course,
as always it has to go inside the person

who's looking for it and whether they
are worthy enough, they themselves, are

they advanced enough, are they, aware
of themselves enough and the universe

around them to handle such awesome power.

Kevin: Yeah, it has all been
leading up to that, right?

Like, we've been teasing the
Betazoids for a while now.

There was the, there was the red
herring that sent the, uh, the

people to Betazed if they didn't
read the whole message early on.

And then we've, we've had the tease that
one of the scientists was Betazoid, and

now finally we're, what kind of test would
a Betazoid leave for future generations?

An introspection test, it appears.

Rob: Of course, the only person who can
handle that is a person who has never

had any internal thoughts or debates with
themselves about their own personality

their emotions and how they feel.

So, um, surprise, surprise, Michael
Burnham had to step up and have a

deep look inside herself, which she
hasn't done for the last five seasons.

All this is going on, uh, while,
you know, the Breen are chasing

Discovery into the Badlands.

Within the Badlands there's
a little pocket where there's

this library that stores all
information of all civilizations.

Uh, we see a creature that I believe
is connected to a race that was

appearing in Star Trek Beyond?

I'm not sure.

I think that was what I heard somewhere.

Kevin: If you're talking about a, a movie
reference, the only one I picked is that

this, the, the representative of the
library is the same race as the federation

president in some of the late TOS movies.

Rob: There you go.

I might have misread stuff online.

Who would have thought?

Kevin: Gotcha, gotcha.

Rob: But she was very good.

Kevin: So overall, liked it?

Disliked it?

How you feeling about it?

Rob: It was, it was what came to pass.

It was everything that was meant to be.

As in, of course, the, uh, the embodiment
of this, uh, program system is, of course,

it has to be Book, and so while Burnham
is looking deep within herself, she is

looking at the reflection of The, you
know, the one true man that loved and does

Kevin: I thought for sure
the answer was in that book.

The whole time he's sitting there at
that table, like, meaningfully turning

the page and then turning it back again.

I'm going like, go read what he's
reading, I'm sure the clue is there.

But no, I was wrong.

It was just another red herring.

Rob: I thought the stuff with the Breen
was quite interesting and there was sort

of like, you know, the balance of power
and the fighting going on there and,

Moll's, uh, Moll's ascension to power.

Um, the more I'm seeing of
Moll, the less impressed I am.

She's a bit one note for me as
a character and a performance,

Kevin: Yeah, I feel that too.

Rob: But I love the machinations within
the Breen culture being brought out more.

Kevin: Yeah, I want her to
be more likable than she is.

Rob: She's not very likable.

Yeah.

Yeah, I have found that she's just like
one note and I'm there going I need a bit

of depth, I need a bit of range to you.

I get it that you're in love with
this character that we've only

seen for a couple of episodes.

I'm not as invested in, uh, her
character as she believes that we

are, or the writers hope that we are.

But I am liking, I'm, I'm
starting to like… I'm getting

used to the Breen new masks.

I'm kind of liking their
new appearance now.

I'm liking the details of sort of like
the, you know, the, the things on the side

of the face and, and the structure of it.

Yeah.

Kevin: I think of them as mutton chops.

Rob: Yeah, we're in a very colonial
era of, uh, Breen history so.

How about you?

How did you find it?

Kevin: Look, yeah, it was
more of the same for me.

It was a visual spectacle this episode,
like the Badlands new incarnation was

really impressive, then the the blue cloud
space inside with the library inside.

Even just shots like the Breen, um,
hitting the shields of the library

and then punching through the shields
and a big explosion of fire behind it.

And Discovery at the end, jumping out at
the same time as it's venting warp plasma

and, and its shuttle bay and then landing
in the new space with all of this detritus

and emissions like pouring out of it.

It looks so, so touchable, so organic.

It has stopped feeling like CG to
me and it's, it's got that weight of

reality to it that I am really enjoying.

So if nothing else, the visual
effects were on point this episode.

I, as we were going through it, I liked
Burnham's attempts to work out the puzzle,

uh, and the way it ended in the end of,
oh, you just had to sit down and look

honestly yourself, it worked for me on
first viewing, but I think on second

viewing, the amount of time she spends
pouring white sand around corridors and

trying to get Book to give her a clue,
it all feels a bit, um, like wasted time

that could have been used for something
better in this very short season.

Rob: It's always a tricky thing when
you've got a quest at this size,

that's spanning entire season, and
you're trying to prove yourself

to be worthy of a certain thing.

And there's always, in every quest
adventure, whether it be The Neverending

Story, whether it be Lord of the Rings
or something like that, there is that

moment where, whether obviously or
quite subtly, that lead character

has that moment where the ultimate
challenge is, is to face themself.

Kevin: And it worked for me.

That moment in the dark with Book, where
she, you know, her eyes are full of tears,

and she is admitting some hard truths to
herself, like, I take your point, Rob,

that Michael Burnham has never been above
self analysis, and this show is constantly

making explicit the emotional subtext
of every single thing that happens.

So it perhaps didn't have the
weight of, oh, this is a character—

Like if, if Picard had had a moment
like this just before a season finale

or before the series finale, it
would have had me in tears, I think.

For Michael, it had me emotionally
affected, but it did not feel like

something we have never seen before.

It just worked.

It worked for me, but it wasn't special.

Rob: I'm kind of starting
to dig, uh, Book a bit more.

Kevin: Oh yeah, and the line,
Is your name really Book?

Rob: Heh, heh, heh,
heh, heh, heh, heh, heh.

Um, so yes, and I'm liking how there's a
true sense of vulnerability when it comes

to Burnham, which I really appreciate,
when it comes to her connection with

Book and her relationship with Book.

That kind of stuff I kind of like.

Um, that I'm there going, there's
something there, that's something there,

um, that isn't just all caught up in
the glory of, of the smugness of it.

There's a true self reflection
of what have I done.

Kevin: They've had to work hard to create
it, but I feel like they've gotten there.

Rob: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin: I, I finally care about
whether Book redeems himself or not.

Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean obviously
I missed that entire season, but I

Kevin: Oh, right.

Rob: Um, that's all, that's the season
four stuff that I've been caught

up with you, thank you very much.

Um, but it's definitely setting the
table and getting ourselves ready for

our final two episodes, and so now
we're in a position where Burnham,

uh, is not so closed off anymore
and wants to talk this through.

Who would have thought?

Talk this through with Book about their
journey, and how that connects to now

they're crippled there, however many
light years away from their destination

with the Breen on track and you know
messages are going out it's all shaping

itself for our final two episodes.

So in that way didn't
feel like a placeholder.

It seemed very much contained and a
episode that stood on its own, but there

was a good laying of the foundation for
where we go for our final two episodes.

Kevin: I liked the hat tip to The
Inner Light, when, uh, Burnham's

knocked out by that little card in
the book where we hear from, I think

it's Hugh Culber, who says there's a
nucleonic beam that's connected to her.

And that's the same type of
beam that knocks out Captain

Picard in The Inner Light.

So, um, that was a nice
nod to, to the past.

And, uh, oh, great to see
Rhys in the captain's chair.

Good to see some chair time
for one of our bridge crew.

Rob: He looked very good.

He looked very and strong, and I also love
that moment of as soon as Burnham, uh, you

know, teleports back on, boom, he's out.

Like, none of slow, casual thing that's
a immediate, it's, it's not even a panic.

It's just this instinctual move.

I'm there going, good,
good, good, good, good.

Kevin: I'm done here.

Yeah.

It's efficient.

It's military.

It's great.

Rob: Heh heh heh heh heh heh.

Kevin: They don't stop to have
a conversation about how his

time in the captain's chair was.

Rob: Well, yeah, because he's a supporting
character, you know, you know, he, you

know, he doesn't get any of that, so.

They might, they might realize it later
and go, oh shit, and so next episode

they may cram in a five minute Oh,
how do you feel about being on this?

Kevin: Have you ever played
Dungeons and Dragons, Rob?

Rob: That is my, one
of my big nerd regrets.

I'm not saying it's my big life regret,
but it is a big nerd regret that I

have never been involved in a campaign.

One of my

Kevin: Ooh, there's still time.

There's still

Rob: There is.

One of my favorite episodes of one
of my favorite TV shows, Community,

is Advanced Dungeons Dragons, which
is, one of the greatest episodes of

television ever written for a nerd.

And just how they do the whole
campaign and it's all about talking

and chatting and bartering and
explaining those who are addicted to

the game, those who are new to it.

But adding in the soundscapes
around it so you feel the

imagination of each character work.

Um, that's always, that's been the only,
that's been, not Stranger Things, not

friends trying to convince me, it's
just been watching Community going,

I should probably do that one time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin: Well, Burnham's time in the
mindscape felt to me like a flavor of

a moment that is uniquely tabletop RPG,
where the dungeon master is sitting at

the end of the table and knows exactly
what the characters are supposed to do in

order to progress the story, but there are
five brains sitting around the rest of the

table going, What do you want us to do?

What are we supposed to do next?

And the dungeon master
goes, Just do something.

And they're like, something is so broad.

Should we go to the pub?

Should we, Get a bucket of white sand
and make a line that we can follow?

Like, yeah, her thrashing in the
mindscape felt exactly like I feel in

those moments in a Dungeons and Dragons
campaign where I don't know what to do.

I just want someone to tell me, here's
the button you're supposed to press

to unlock the rest of the story.

Rob: And the Book avatar was the
dungeon master there with the

book in front of them going, Oh,
I'm not sharing this with you.

You got to figure it out all yourself.

Kevin: So yes, that, that's, that
was the vibe of this episode.

The, um, the after show talked about how
these scenes were shot in a real library.

They make a big deal out of how
it's like the third most important

library for the English language in
terms of the rare texts that it has.

And one of the, one of the books in this
library is the first or the oldest known

English book, book written in English.

And, uh, as we were watching those very
CG filled, uh, scenes of the library

with floors upon floors and, like,
that goes on forever, I was trying

to pick, like, what of all this is
that real library that they shot in?

Like, was it just that one room
where she's sitting in at the table

with Book, and even that has a
bunch of green screen panels that

are creating infinity beyond it?

We're used to seeing things shot in that
void where the LED walls in the background

are providing the camera-matched
movement for the background.

But they, they weren't doing that
this episode, or at least they weren't

doing that for some of this episode.

It's really hard to pick.

What the real place that was used here?

Rob: Yeah, for me, if you're
gonna be promoting the fact that

you're in the third most important
library in the world, great.

Make sure you show it in a way that we
know what's what as a, yeah, it very

filtered with a lot of CGI stuff, so I
had no idea it was actual real location.

It felt like a,

Kevin: I'm sure the people who work there
are watching it going that is amazing.

There is a small corner of
a real room in that scene.

Rob: See that shelf?

That's our shelf!

Kevin: is real you wouldn't
think it but it's real.

Rob: So, yeah, anything else you
want to add or say about Labyrinths?

Kevin: No, I'm good.

I think, uh, I think that covers it well.

Like, there's not a whole lot to say
about this because I think so much of

it was fast paced action y beats that
were, like, really enjoyable to watch

but not, not super deep to analyze for

Rob: And there was that balance of
the action y stuff, but also the

contemplative stuff, that's a good, a
good job of, um, uh, keeping that pace

balanced while having the more intimate
scenes, of Burnham, uh, matching that

with space battles and, and running
through corridors and shooting stuff.

Kevin: The topic that we picked out
of this episode is that, that moment

where the captain is on their own.

Like, they are disconnected from
their ship and crew, the resources

that are usually at their disposal
to resolve a situation are absent,

and it is Captain on their own.

Uh, we have previously done an episode
called When the Captain's Away.

That was episode 31 of Subspace Radio.

And so this is kind of
the flip side of that.

We previously looked at the
crew when there's no captain.

Now we're going to look at the
captain when there's no crew.

Rob: Yeah.

And for both of these, it was incredibly
difficult to find, uh, find a home with

my home of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine,
because like Sisko is pretty much in every

single episode and he's always present.

And there's hardly the pretty much none
that we could find where he goes off and

everyone else has left all these devices.

Same here as well, because
he's such a team player.

Um, I could only find two and
those two from Deep Space Nine are

ones we've already talked about.

Kevin: What were they?

Rob: Um, they were, uh, they were Waltz,
which we have talked about before,

Kevin: That was a cave episode when we
talked about cave episodes, Sisko and

Dukat, or, or crazed Dukat in a cave.

Rob: Yes, with the voices, uh, all the,
the people from his life speaking to

him he is fully and absolutely unhinged.

Marc Alaimo does incredible work
there, and Sisko is of course injured.

Um, and of course the other one was,
uh, one of the greatest episodes of

Star Trek and Deep Space Nine ever
done, uh, in the Pale Moon Light, where,

Kevin: Ah, yeah, yeah.

Interesting that one that Sisko is almost
metaphorically on his own in that one.

Like he is addressing to camera, he's
playing in a lot of solo scenes, but he

is relaying the events that took place
on the station with his crew around him,

but he kind of like, the fact that he is
acting independently and he is making this

momentous decision to, uh, to mislead the
Romulan Star Empire, and he's taking all

of that on his own shoulders is like he
is alone among his crew in that episode.

Rob: Exactly.

And what, yeah, when you're at your
loneliest point, there's only one

person turn to, and that's Garak.

Kevin: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, that's right.

You're never alone if you've
got a simple tailor on board,

Rob: that you can beat the crap out
of when you're angry at for line,

Kevin: Okay, so we're pushing
past Deep Space Nine because

apparently Sisko is a team player.

He never works without his crew.

Rob: The best team player, yeah.

Kevin: Well, what's the first
one that you found for us?

Rob: Okay, um, I think
I have said this to you.

I think we do need to change the title
of, uh, our podcast from Subspace Radio

to Rob Does His Star Trek Homework.

So, this week I am focusing on
two must see episodes of Star

Trek that I had never seen before.

And now I have seen them, so
now I know what they're about.

Kevin: Are they still must see?

Like, at the risk of spoiling it,

Rob: One definitely is.

Kevin: Okay, good.

Rob: Um, there's a lot in the
other one that, you know, has

reflections on Star Trek forever.

Kevin: It's the start of a lot of things…

Rob: Yeah.

Um, so yes, let's go way back
to, to those old scientists.

Let's go back to Season 1, Episode
18 of Star Trek, the original

series, with one word title.

Arena.

Kevin: Yes.

Rob: This is, um, our first
appearance of the Gorn.

Now, we've talked a lot about
this episode and I've been

satelliting around this episode.

I've been, sort of like, orbiting around
it while all the rest of you have been

within the planet discussing this episode

Kevin: They keep bringing
back the Gorn and going, Rob,

you should know what this is.

Rob: Yes, I should know what this is.

And, after all my love of the Gorn
in, uh, Strange New Worlds, Season 1

and 2, it's a interesting experience
to go back to where it all started.

And just like we talked about with, um,
the first ever Mirror Universe episode,

it's very much not about the Gorn at all.

The Gorn are just a thing.

It's, it's a leading to what it is to
be a captain of a ship, what it is to

be, um, a human, and what it is to, uh,
be a civilized, uh, representation of

enlightened culture, or something that.

So it's very much a case of,
the Gorn are a means to an end.

They're not the, the focus of the
episode, even though they have become

this new boogeyman lead villain,
arch villain, uh, or antagonist

within, uh, Strange New Worlds.

Kevin: Yeah, it's interesting.

The original point of the Gorn, and
Kirk comes right out and says it in one

of his log entries in this episode, is
like, I think he says something like,

like, most humans I have an instinctive
revulsion to reptiles, and I have to

keep reminding myself that this is a
sentient being, a captain of a starship.

And that is very much the moral of
this episode is, can we, as evolved

humans, overcome our instinctive
prejudices and see, see a person

in something that is alien.

Rob: Yes, because um, after a skirmish
on an outer colony where the Gorn

have absolutely destroyed everything
and everyone who lived on that

Kevin: I love those scenes of the
blasted surface of that, uh, that planet.

Um, it feels very, like,
unusually expansive.

They, they set dressed a whole
parking lot or something.

Rob: That opening, that that shot
when they come back or the the

final shot before the credits or of
the opening titles or that opening

shot after the titles which is
just like on a crane, looking down

at the desolation of the colony,

Kevin: Yeah, it's a beautiful camera
move, like they beam down and the camera's

looking down on them and everything at
first glance looks normal and then the

camera descends and tilts up and you
see the destruction all around them.

It's really cinematic.

Rob: Yes.

So, um, this, uh, colony is wiped
out, uh, by a mysterious race, uh,

that we don't see or hear from.

Their ship can't be seen, and there's
a chase that ensues across, uh, the

galaxy to hunt them down for what they
did, and Kirk is very bloodthirsty here.

He's a

Kevin: Yeah, he is.

He's out for revenge.

Rob: Lot of talk in this episode,
which I haven't heard much about.

Save the ship, save the ship,
you gotta look after the ship.

It's my ship, my ship.

Um, and it's quite interesting watching
it now, how precious the ship is to him,

where in future episodes, how many times
have we seen, seen the Enterprise get

blown up and put back together again.

But, uh, it turns out that both spaceships
have been, have entered a domain that

is ruled by this higher presence,

Kevin: The Metrons.

Rob: And they are, um, they are
judging both races on their lack

of civility and morality and,
um, how bloodthirsty they are.

Kevin: Yeah, it's a fun little thing
of like, they're chasing each other

at high warp and they keep like,
Go a little faster, go a little

faster, you're gonna fly us apart!

And then it's like, there's an uncharted,
uh, star system off to our left.

We're, we're passing it.

I'm sure that won't amount to anything.

Rob: It's Chekhov's star system.

Kevin: And then the beams come.

Rob: I did like the whole thing of
like it got to the point where they

said we're going to warp eight.

And everyone goes, warp eight?

And I've gone, I've seen Star Trek IV.

Kevin: That's not a number!

That's the look on their faces.

Eight?

We've never used that number before.

Rob: This is me watching and saying,
they go to warp ten, alright?

They slingshot around the,
slingshot around the sun.

I've seen Star Trek IV.

Come on.

Kevin: I have to ask you, Rob, as a fresh
viewer for the first time of this episode,

did it seem to you that the Gorn were
a race that was familiar to Starfleet?

Rob: Um.

No.

Kevin: Because keep in mind, canonically,
this episode takes place after all the

stuff we've seen in Strange New Worlds.

Rob: Yeah.

Exactly.

And so that's what I was trying to,
compartmentalize in my head of going,

this is canonical, but it's also not.

Kevin: Scotty crash landed on a planet
that was overtaken by the Gorn and helped

Captain Pike get out of that situation.

Scotty is surprisingly tight
lipped about this experience on the

Rob: He has not gone,
it's those creatures.

Remember, Spock?

Remember, Spock?

We were, we had to go through this
whole thing with our previous captain.

Does anybody else, anybody
else still here that knows?

We've met these guys before.

We know, hey, hey, I know that guy.

Kevin: But they tread a
surprisingly fine line.

Like when I was listening for it,
they never say anything that makes it

impossible that we've met the Gorn before.

They talk about, they are flying
into a, um, an unknown area of space.

They talk about how this, there, this
area of space has had rumors of unusual

signals, but they never say the Gorn
are a previously unencountered race, or

we've never heard of them before, even
when the name the Gorn is revealed.

The Metrons say they are known as
the Gorn, and no one says, Wow,

thanks for filling us in, we had
no idea what they were called.

They all kind of just keep their
peace, and it allows for that thread

to be woven in Strange New Worlds.

That actually, yes, the Starfleet
and the Federation has had

dealings with the Gorn before.

Rob: Look, it's a very delicate.

Line of retconning that, uh, Star Trek
are doing here, uh, are doing with

the current, uh, Strange New Worlds.

It's very similar to the thin lines of
retconning that was done in Star Wars

with the prequels, so that it's never
actually said, now, Obi Wan Kenobi

never actually says when he sees R2 D2
in New Hope and goes hello my friend,

you know, don't be worried about him.

He'll be alright.

He doesn't go shit R2.

I remember you.

I've known you for like so many
years, and I haven't seen you for 15.

How you doing?

He doesn't say hi.

But he doesn't acknowledge that
I've never met this thing before

Kevin: He doesn't not say hi.

Rob: He doesn't not not, yeah, he goes,
says, I don't remember owning a droid,

and technically he didn't own R2.

It was Anakin, they're going, they're,
they're playing, they're doing a

waltz and a ballet of retconning here,
Star Trek, and, you know, they did

not say that, so, I had to put that
on the back burner and just enjoy it

for what it was of this, you know,

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: fighting the human instinct of
repulsion to survive but also try and

be compassionate and so in the end
his compassion wins out and it's a

very 60s sci fi thing of the beautiful
young boy appearing on the high rock

at the end going, I may look young.

But I'm actually old.

I, and I'll come back in a couple of
thousand years to see how you are.

And that's happened before
in previous episodes as well.

And future episodes,
we've talked about well.

I can't remember the specific name of
it or what, maybe it was an anim, it

was an animated one, an animated one.

They go, we'll come back in 30,
000 years and you'll be ready us.

Kevin: It was the big snuffle
the pink snuffleupagus

Rob: My favorite of the animated ones.

There you go.

Kevin: So we've skipped over it, but like
my overriding memory of this episode is

Kirk fighting the Gorn on the planet.

How much of this episode is that and,
and how did that part feel to you?

Rob: Surprisingly, it's,
it's, it's in the second half.

Kevin: Oh right.

Rob: I thought it'd take up a majority
of the whole episode, but you know, our

first section is all about, you know,
being on the colony, talking to the lone

survivor, then it moves into the chase
scene, so it's not until about halfway

through that we get into the arena actual
fight at Vasquez Rocks, um, and then it

Kevin: Yes, it is.

Vasquez Rocks, of course.

Rob: God bless Vasquez Rocks,
or whatever God you represent.

But my favorite, my favorite part was,
it's already, we've already had Menagerie

in Season 1, which is pretty much a
Star Trek episode watching another Star

Trek episode, and this becomes another
thing of just the entire crew of the

Enterprise just sitting and watching TV.

Kevin: And, uh, if memory serves,
Spock is very, uh, he's shouting

at the TV for most of the time.

Do this!

Find that!

Rob: He's being very Gogglebox, going,
yes, figure it out, Jim, yes, you

know you can do with that, if you just
need some coal, find the coal, Jim.

Kevin: Oh yes, they make,
uh, he makes gunpowder.

Rob: He does, he

Kevin: The, the, uh, the pieces, the
building blocks for gunpowder are very

conspicuously strewn across the ground
on this, uh, version of Vasquez Rocks.

Rob: Yes, apparently there's
bamboo in a desert, so a

Kevin: of bamboo,

Rob: crop of bamboo just
so happens to be there.

Everything you need to create an
old school gun is there for you.

Kevin: Speaking of, uh, dungeon masters,
the Metrons kind of say, There will be

everything you need to create weapons.

But, in hindsight, it was everything
you need to create weapon.

It was a very specific weapon they had
in mind for Kirk or the Gorn to make.

Was just, who was going
to get there first?

Rob: Look, and um, me as a Doctor Who
fan, you need to be able to suspend

your disbelief at some point because
you're going, it will not match up with

how technology has advanced special
effects wise and stuff like that.

So even fight sequences where you,
you see them moving in slow motion

but you know they are in real time.

So some of those, um, you know, punches
and swings and stuff like that is very

I'm there going, why is it so slow?

Like, even even barroom fights in Westerns
at that time were fast paced throwing

and yeah, I was just there going, yeah,
just the slow graze and the slow duck.

Um, but

Kevin: get the feeling Kirk
could defeat him at just a casual

stroll off into the distance.

Rob: Well, isn't that a, um, it's
a Monty Python gag, isn't it?

Just running around while someone
armour is trying to chase you,

and then they have a heart attack.

So you win because outrun them death.

Um, yeah, it definitely lifts up when
they are doing a bit more cat and mouse.

When they're in the same space throwing
very, very obviously Paper Mâché

rocks at each other, it struggles.

But once you go into the psychological
process of like, even, the Gorn speaks!

Why haven't our Gorn started speaking?

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: Hiss type of thing.

Captain, I will make it quick
and easy, make will make it

a honorable quick deaaaath.

Kevin: The, how, how does Kirk
operate alone in your view?

Like Kirk good on his own?

Rob: It's good, it's good to see him
actually use his intelligence, cause,

uh, you know, it's, people have wrongly
accused him of just being, you know,

um, a hound dog with the ladies,
and, uh, fire first type of stuff.

And there is that bloodthirsty element
to him, where Spock has to calm him down

and go, this is, you know, This is not
the way, this is not the Federation way.

He's going, we can't
let this go unpunished.

We, if they, if we don't stop them,
they'll come back and do it again.

But to have him calculate a way out of
this, using his intelligence with Spock

there going, you can do this, and he does
it, and then that ultimate compassion

at the end, um, is a, it's a, it's
a good episode for, for um, James T.

Kirk.

And especially for, um, Shatner does well.

Shatner has to go through some stuff.

His anger, his outrage.

Um, his, his cunning.

His, um, his compassion.

It's, it's all there,
which I really appreciate.

And I love the fact they name
every single crew member.

They are, they're not just red shirts.

They, they, you know, you know,
all, all of them get a name.

They get named, they get spot checked.

It's not just crewman over say what

Kevin: At the start,
you mean, on Cestus III.

Rob: the start.

So I like, that's another I really like.

They're not just faceless, nameless crew.

They have a name and Kirk,

Kevin: They have at least one name.

They're like Rogers, Jameson.

Rob: Lang.

But yes, it definitely a good episode to
see why he's the captain, why he's been

able to survive this long, why he's been
promoted, and why he's such a good leader.

He can, you know, it's a good
representation of going, that's our

hero, that's our captain, and that's,
you know, he's got the support of his

crew, but he can look after himself.

Kevin: The other thing I remember
finding funny about this episode is

that Kirk, like they both he and the
Gorn are given a device that they're

told is called a translator recorder
device or something like that.

And Kirk uses it to record.

He thinks he's recording log entries,
but actually he is sending, he's telling

all of his plans to his opponent.

I feel like there is a allegory about
social media in there, that you can't

keep yourself from broadcasting your
intentions to the world, you're eventually

going to put your foot in your mouth.

Rob: it is the old gag of you.

You know, you think you've hung
up the phone, but it's still on.

You're going, oh gee, that guy's a wanker.

Oh, is this thing still on?

Oh!

Kevin: Maybe it's the weakness
of Starfleet that they, they

are addicted to, to log entries.

And so even when they're on their own,
Um, if they're given the opportunity, they

can't help themselves from speaking their
plans into a device that's there for them.

Rob: That's what the
Metron should have said.

Said at the end and going, you know,
it's not about you being blood thirsty.

Uh, it's just, you're too goddamn stupid.

We told you a translator.

Why are you, why are you saying your
whole plan to the opposition, you idiot?

So yes, so that's a, that was my
first experience with, uh, Arena, and

there's a lot there to take away from
it, and, and how it represents Star

Trek at that time, but how it's also
shaped Star Trek, you know, in general.

Kevin: I'm going to take
us to The Next Generation.

And there's a lot of Picard off on his own
in various, uh, situations and reasons.

Rob: When got Patrick Stewart, man.

Kevin: Yeah.

It's like it was in his contract
once, once per season, I'm going

to have an episode all to myself.

Rob: All to myself.

I, um, I've worked with the
Royal Shakespeare Company.

I was in Excalibur.

Um, I am better than this, but I am
slumming it for you, Gene, you, Michael.

Kevin: I'm going to take us to
the last of these that caught my

interest because it's an episode
we haven't talked about and it's a,

it's a particular favorite of mine.

It is called Starship Mine
season six, episode 18.

Um, this title has always confused me.

Is it starship mine or starship … mine?

Rob: Haha ha ha!

Is there a comma in there?

Kevin: When you think about it,
like the starship is never at risk

of becoming an explosive, really.

I mean, there is, there is a group of
terrorists who in this episode have

plotted to steal some trilithium resin
from the warp engines of the Enterprise.

And it is a highly explosive substance
that they're carrying around in a little,

um, containment device as they chase
Captain Picard around the hallways of

the otherwise abandoned Enterprise D.

But that doesn't really justify the
word mine in my mind like, there,

there is an explosive substance that
is being stolen from the Enterprise.

It does not make the
Enterprise itself a mine.

So I think this is maybe a misleading,
deliberately misleading title, and,

uh, Starship Mine is really about
Picard saying to these terrorists,

No, this starship is mine.

You shall not have it.

This far and no farther.

Rob: Nice.

Kevin: In this episode The entire crew
of the Enterprise beams off while the

Enterprise is in this thing called the
Remmler Array, and it will be doing a

sweep, a baryon sweep, which is this
green force field that will pass from

the very back of the ship to the very
front of the ship and clean all the

baryon particles out of the ship, uh,
and because it is, uh, fatal to organic

life, everyone has to get off the ship.

There is a reception on the starbase
where about half of the action of this

episode happens, and it's all about
Data learning small talk, and the

terrorists take over the reception,
and that is all very enjoyable, but

for our purposes today we will focus
on the action on the Enterprise.

Picard at the last minute goes back
to his ship to get his saddle because

he hears there is horse riding
available on the nearby planet.

And when he's back on the ship, he
sees that there are still some people

on the ship, and they are taking off
panels and cutting wires they shouldn't.

Turns out they're terrorists, and,
uh, Picard, when he is captured at

first, he identifies himself as Mot,
the barber, and he, he plays dumb.

And this, I think, is something
that captains sometimes do when

they are on their own, is they
pretend they're not the captain.

They're like, oh no,
I'm just a lowly ensign.

I have no idea what I'm doing.

Hi yah!

I karate chop you when you're not looking.

So yes, it, it, it's really enjoyable.

Um, notable, one of the terrorists in
this episode is played by Tim Russ,

so it is pre-Tuvok Tuvok, and Captain
Picard gives him a Vulcan neck pinch.

Years before he plays a Vulcan
himself, he gets neck pinched by

Captain Picard, and it is hilarious.

Um,

Rob: And how's Tim Russ do?

How does Tim do in the episode?

Is he, uh

Kevin: Yeah, he's good.

He's good.

He's got this moment where he's like
wielding a laser torch because, um, the

Baryon sweep interferes with conventional
directed energy, uh, weapons, so

he's using a laser torch to threaten
the captain and there's this moment

where he's like, I'm gonna get that
guy, and he looks real mean about it,

and I was like, good beat, Tim Russ.

Rob: Ya, Tim.

On ya, Timmy.

Kevin: Uh, yeah, he does
some, like, action fighting.

I'm sure he's been replaced by a
stuntman at that moment, but I buy

it as a bit of Tim Russ as well.

Um, so yeah, it's good stuff.

I feel like, I have heard that Patrick
Stewart said, I want to be an action hero.

Write me an episode
where I'm an action hero.

And it is very Die Hard, this episode,
like, Picard rolls up his sleeves,

um, he goes to Worf's quarters to
get a crossbow, and he dips the tips

in poison, while he's, while he's
talking to the terrorists on their

communicator that he has stolen from them.

So he's listening in on their
communications and then jumps in

and goes, don't be ridiculous.

You can't carry trilithium
resin around this place.

It's very explosive.

Um, I think a new color for the
Enterprise cause all the lights are off.

So it's a dark version of the Enterprise.

A new color for Picard who's
climbing the walls and, um,

running through Jeffrey's tubes and

Rob: Is he in a singlet?

he in a singlet?

like he was in First Contact?

Kevin: He's in his civvies, like he has,

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: for riding, so he's in his
riding outfit for most of this episode.

Rob: When you did mention, Picard
pretending to be somebody else,

Kevin: Yeah, he's out of uniform.

Rob: And it's very Die Hard as
well with, you know, Alan Rickman

pretending to be Bill Clay with the

Kevin: Exactly!

Exactly like that.

So many of the same beats as Die
Hard, but like sometimes reversed

or flipped around or taken in
a new direction through sci fi.

So, yeah, it's really enjoyable.

Um, you get to see Picard play another
character, catch these terrorists in

a ruse, ultimately, come right out and
fighting hand to hand in Ten Forward.

At the culmination of this episode,
the Baryon sweep has gone all the way

through the ship and it's just making
its way through Ten Forward and Picard

has to like climb up into the triangular
windows to avoid it as he's on this

communicator going, Stop the Baryon sweep!

Stop it immediately!

It's, uh, yeah, it's a good time.

I recommend it.

Rob: Well, there you go.

That's a, I'd love to see Patrick
Stewart get his John McClane on.

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.

Rob: Right,

Kevin: Uh, what's next from

Rob: Well, let's stay in the world of,
uh, TNG, I know, a rare thing for me

to do, and let's go back, backwards
in time, and then, for only a brief

period of about 25 minutes, we'll
experience an entire lifetime in

what some people say, is the greatest
Star Trek episode ever put to screen.

Kevin: Some people being me sometimes.

Pretty liberal with my best
episode ever's, uh, but, The Inner

Light is definitely a good one.

Rob: We are looking at The Inner Light,
Season 5, Episode 25, right before we

get to the season finale, Time's Arrow.

A mysterious probe is found out.

A light hits Picard.

A ray hits Picard.

Uh, and, uh, on the ship and he convulses
and goes black blacks out and he awakes to

find himself in the life of somebody else.

He has a wife, uh, he is an important
member of a community, where their,

their, their soil is dying, and their
planet is dying, and he lives an entire

lifetime within the space of 25 minutes,
as the crew try and figure out where

this probe comes from, what the light is
doing and how they can keep him alive.

It's an incredible hour of television
and it's incredible hour of sci fi and

this incredible beautiful balance of
what we love about science fiction,

uh, science technobabble, um, science
fiction tied in with real human emotions.

Incredible performances across the board,
uh, it's very interesting how we now see

Patrick Stewart as old man and how he
is made up to look like an old man when

he was not as old as he was or is now.

Kevin: He's, he's aged better than
the makeup, uh, gave him credit

Rob: He's, yeah, well, clearly the
doctors and the, the healthcare

system on, uh, on that planet was
nowhere near as, uh, high quality as

Kevin: It's the, it's the sun.

It's the sun damage.

Rob: It's that damn sun.

That damn sun.

That's why, that's why he created the
special lotion to, uh, to protect you.

What an incredible, what an
incredible episode of television.

Kevin: I'm so glad you liked it, Rob.

Like I've said, this is one of my
favorites and it would have broken

my heart if you said, Ugh, it's it
on a bit thick, don't you think?

Rob: No, it's a good, beautiful balance,
like the The tension between him

and his wife at the start, because,
and how patient she is with him.

Um, beautiful relationship he develops
with, uh, Batai, um, played by the

great, uh, Richard, uh, Riehle,
who's, who's done a lot of stuff.

You may have seen him around.

Like, he was in The Fugitive, he was
in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, he's been

around doing stuff, a great jobbing actor.

And this is a beautiful performance
here, just being allowed to,

you know, sit around and shoot
the shit with Patrick Stewart.

Having some drinkin

Kevin: off screen,

Rob: Yeah, dies off screen,

Kevin: gets a child named after him.

What could be better?

Rob: Yeah, just beautiful writing
and those jumps of time don't

seem frantic or disjointed.

It's a really beautiful
flow and how we see,

Kevin: it's a fine line they're
walking, like the, the, the days

or the, the moments of time in this
life that we do see are, um, in

hindsight, surprisingly action packed.

Like, all of the important moments of
this person's life happen in four ten

minute vignettes that happen decades
apart in and we get to see them.

And you just wonder, like, is all the rest
of the time, like, filling in moments?

Or, Maybe the probe is doing something
to his brain where like, actually

those, the things we saw are actually
the only things we experienced,

but it's kind of like giving him
this impression of time passing.

You know how your mind plays
tricks on you sometimes when you're

dreaming of things take a really
long time or really short time.

You wonder, like, how dreamlike was
this experience for, for Captain Picard?

Did he literally live out every second
in real time of that life, or not?

It's hard to know.

Rob: And much like Arena, it's
always difficult when you come

in to watch something that's so
highly regarded, whether it be a

Kevin: Yeah, we raised the,
the bar was pretty high.

Rob: And it's always the case is, so
much is talked about this episode,

it's interesting to watch this, and
Arena as well, and how little is said.

How, how much people
talk about it afterwards.

The words that people talk about this
episode is, You know, multiple times

more than what is actually said and
how much is unsaid about like whether,

Kevin: A lot of room is left for
the audience to, to, to create

their own version of this story.

Rob: And you see a lot of emotion
through, you know, looks or expressions

or especially with the ending, um,
whereas more modern shows they would

have had a moment with, and they have in
TNG episodes when there's been through

something harrowing that Picard sits
down and talks with Troi about it, but in

this in particular, it's a very internal
process of he wakes up and he finds

himself back, he'd almost forgotten who he
was and he remembers it and that's those

moments of… the only thing that's left
from this civilization is the flute that,

uh, this character played, that he was,

Kevin: the two moments that kill me
when he gets up on the bridge and Dr.

Crusher says, come with me to sick bay.

And he just says, Dr.

Crusher.

Like he just says her name
because he's realizing who she is.

And then he, she ushers him into
the turbo lift and he turns back

and looks at the bridge and smiles.

And as an audience, I'm like, I am
so glad he's happy in that moment.

Rob: It's, but a, it's, it's not a fully
overjoyed smile, it's a, it's it's a worn,

tired, it's a case of, it's, he's still
affected by it, he's not unbridled happy.

You can see that he is grateful to be home
and he's grateful to be back in his place.

But you can, that's, and that's
just the beauty of Patrick Stewart.

The

Kevin: That's the, It's
a Wonderful Life moment.

How many times have we heard
captains say, I'm tired.

Every day is the same.

Another mission, another day.

Here, Captain Picard, in a moment where
he felt like he had lost his entire

world, looks back on it and smiles
and is glad it's still there for him.

That is really, it's
a heartwarming moment.

And then the other is, with the flute
in his quarters, when he clutches

it to his chest, I just can't
keep it together in that moment.

Rob: Yeah, that's a,
that's a beautiful moment.

He's on his own and he doesn't
just look at it, he picks it

up and he holds it to him.

Um, I like that moment also when he's
just realized what's going on and it's

the people of his past, his wife, his
best friend, everyone there going,

walking around and going, remember us.

Remember what we went through, remember,
we were here, we were, you know, we

were a people, we existed, and we,
you know, we want to be remembered.

Remember us.

You will carry us.

And so, you know, it's a
beautiful stand alone episode.

And it's this case of, you know,
maybe their story will be told, uh,

by Picard and passes it on, and so
it could become a part of, you know,

legacy that is remembered, or maybe the
memory that they have is within Picard.

Kevin: Since we're talking about captains
on their own, I think what's interesting

about this episode is it kind of is
and kind of isn't Picard on his own.

Because he, he very quickly becomes
Kamin and his, his character becomes

influenced by the world in which he exists
and the family that he has around them.

And by the end, Picard is almost
unrecognizable when he's playing his

flute at his second child's name day
and he has softened and is a loving

father who wants the best for his
son, who wants a career in music.

Um, played by Daniel Stewart, by the
way, uh, Patrick Stewart's real life son.

Rob: There you go.

I was wondering, I was there
going, yeah, is there a connection?

That is his son.

Beautiful.

Kevin: Yeah, and so that how Picard
is changed, uh, as he becomes more

and more Kamin, and how much of that
is going to be a permanent change

for this character that we know?

How much of Kamin will remain
in Picard going forward?

There's a quote from Ronald D.

Moore, who worked on this episode,
who, he says, I've always felt that the

experience in The Inner Light would have
been the most profound experience in

Picard's life and changed him irrevocably.

However, that wasn't our intention
when we were creating the show.

We were after a good hour of TV
the larger implications of how

this would really screw someone up
didn't hit home for us until later.

Um, yeah, I feel like so much is made of.

The Borg assimilation's effect on Picard,
and yes, post traumatic stress is a

thing, but what about post life syndrome?

Like, I, I would have loved, there is
this one episode later on where Picard,

we've talked about it before, Picard, um,
falls in love with this Commander Daren,

who he has to send on a dangerous but
before they do, she, she plays piano, and

he plays a duet with her on the flute.

And so the flute comes back and it
is this moment of seeing Picard do

something that is very un Picardy
because of his experience in Inner Light.

But it's just one episode
and just one relationship.

Rob: And you, I mean if you want to really
stretch it, it's sort of like, it is

addressed in Generations as well, like
how he, um, he loses his brother and his

brother's family, and how the last of the
Picards and he doesn't have that family to

carry on with, and it isn't really played
up because it focuses more on the Borg

stuff, but in Picard Season 3, it's about,
you know, the family that he never knew

he had, but he kind of does have, and he
has to learn how to part of that family.

Um, yeah, it's, it's,
it's, it's, it's beautiful.

It's just a beautiful episode.

I really enjoyed watching it and I'm,

Kevin: I hum that little piece of
music from the flute all the time.

Like when I'm walking around the
house alone, that's something

that I'll often hum to myself,

Rob: Because he starts, he starts
playing a well known tune, doesn't he?

But then he starts

Kevin: Yeah, it's Frère Jacques at first.

Rob: Yeah, and then he
creates his own compositions.

Kevin: Mmm.

Rob: Yeah, a great episode of, and
yeah, like you said, it's not so much a

mission, it's just sort of like, uh, a
journey of, um, Picard and how he gets

what he always wanted in some ways.

He always wanted to be an explorer.

He never just wanted to stay
on a vineyard, uh, making wine.

He always wanted to explore.

But there was a part of him
going, I've sacrificed family

and stability for this life.

What would that look like?

Kevin: Yeah.

Oh, I'm so glad you liked it.

Rob: Loved it.

Kevin: I've got one more for us.

It is not.

It does not.

Raised to the heights of
The Inner Light, I'm afraid.

This is Star Trek Voyager
season 2 episode 12, Resistance.

A time in this series where resistance
did not necessarily mean the Borg.

Rob: And didn't mean it was futile.

Kevin: No, it was not futile
in this episode at all.

I feel like, similar to Sisko, perhaps,
Janeway is a captain or a leader who is

at their most effective and at most at
home when they have a crew around them.

I feel like Janeway's natural state
is giving orders to capable people.

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: Janeway herself is
not, is not an action hero.

She is a scientist, but it, that
is rarely brought out in story.

And in this episode, Janeway is
separated from her crew and has to

figure stuff out alone and she seemed
so, um, so lost in this episode.

So broad strokes, this episode kind
of starts in media res, where the ship

has made contact with a resistance
cell on a planet that we've never

seen before and we'll never see again,
because that resistance cell is willing

to get them a substance that they
need to refuel their warp engines

that have broken down on Voyager.

But yes, this planet is known to
be occupied by a brutal government

that is extremely xenophobic.

And so Voyager figures out the only
way they'll get this substance is if

they talk to the Resistance instead.

And at the start of this episode,
they've just gotten the substance that

they need, but most of the away team is
captured by the police in the process.

Um, B'Elanna Torres and Tuvok are thrown
in prison, Neelix manages to get back to

the ship with the essential substance,
and Janeway is grazed by a phaser shot

and carried off by the resistance,
and she is on her own for the rest of

this episode, where she spends most of
her time with this kind of, um, this,

old man who seems to be related to the
resistance, but no one takes seriously

because he's constantly talking about
his daughter and wife, who no one has

seen in many years, but he is sure they
were just here yesterday before they were

dragged off by the, the military police.

And so he's, he's got problems, this guy.

He is quite delusional in this.

So he very quickly, like confuses
Janeway with his daughter and starts

calling her by his daughter's name.

She tries to correct him and
goes, oh, that's a wonderful

story you're telling my dear.

Tell me more stories about your Starship.

Um, and so Janeway ends up kind of giving
up and just going along with it because

after all, this guy will, uh, treat her
injuries and, and give her food and water.

And is her connection, only connection
at this point to the resistance

from whom she needs help in order
to rescue, B'Elanna and Tuvok.

And as the, as the episode goes on, she
is walking that line between being kind

to this old man who is treating her as his
daughter, and not taking advantage of him.

And she saves his bacon
on several occasions.

He's very quick to anger and is,
whenever he sees the police, he wants

to go and fight them to get his wife
back, and she's talking him down.

But it's also, kind of self serving
because if, if he makes a scene, she will

get spotted and, and captured herself.

Uh, and so it's an interesting
line she's striking there.

But it all, it all feels a bit passive
to me that she is kind of just being

carried along by the whims of this
delusional old man who, yes, is getting

her closer and closer to her objective,
but she isn't doing a lot in this episode.

She does two things.

She spots that a guy who was meant to
be bringing them weapons is wearing

polished boots, and therefore it's a trap.

It's he's a he's a plant
from the military police.

And then she dresses up as a prostitute,
which is an unfortunate turn for the first

female captain of a starship in Star Trek.

But she realizes when they're not
going to get weapons, the only

way to get into the prison is to
don the robes of a prostitute.

There have been a couple of women of
the night wandering around on this

planet and she realizes they are going
to the prison at night and, um, and

providing their services, and she's like,
Oh, I can dress up like one of those.

And she sneaks in and then they,
they, they seduce a guard and

then knock him over the head
to knock him out and it works.

It's, it's kind of, kind of a
power move for Janeway, but also

there is that, that kind of, uh,
did it have to be a prostitute?

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: There, there is
a bit of that about it.

Rob: There are people of the
cloth that go into, uh, prisons as

Kevin: Exactly!

It could have been that, yes.

So yeah, um, yeah, yeah.

So it is unusual to see Janeway without
her crew, and we do get to see that

here, but for me, it, it, like, there
is that moment, because inevitably

the old man sacrifices himself he
thinks is his daughter and dies.

And Janeway is left with the necklace
that he gave her, that he put around

her neck, thinking she was his daughter,
and she is cold and stone faced in

her ready room while Harry Kim is
giving her an engine repairs report,

and she says, I'm fine, and he leaves,
and the camera turns, and we see her

face, and she just looks a little sad.

It's not, it's not the clutching the
flute to the chest moment that we

get from Picard in The Inner Light.

So, does not quite get there for me, this

Rob: We go from, Picard clutching a
flute and his whole soul is destroyed,

to Janeway, she's looking a little sad.

Kevin: Yeah,

I wonder, I wonder if I
got that old man killed.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure got that

Rob: was, that was my fault.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin: My bad.

Rob: Well, there you go.

I mean, yeah, I always see, you know, my
favorite image of Janeway is always her

walking into the cafeteria area, going
behind the, you know, where, where Neelix

is getting a, getting one coffees, and
you know, having a sip of that and walking

around and talking and chatting to people.

That's her giving out orders, but
also being amongst the people.

She was very much, that's how she led
her, um, her people is being amongst

them, chatting, talking, walking around
the spaces, not just being on the bridge.

Or, um, walking with
authority around place.

It was this sense of, you
know, I'm a part of the people.

So it'd be interesting to watch her,
um, uh, you know, get her sexy on.

Kevin: I love Kate, but, uh, I
think this episode proves to me

that, uh, Captain Janeway is at
her best with a crew around her.

Rob: Yes, I, I concur.

I concur.

Kevin: Well, there you go, Rob.

We've only got two episodes
left of Discovery, and then

we'll be back on hiatus.

What are your hopes and dreams
for the denouement of this, uh,

this great series that you love

Rob: so much?

Ah-ha!

Ha ha ha ha.

Look at you, mister.

Someone took their sass
tablets this morning!

Um, Uh, look, I'm excited because
next week's episode is directed by

the great Jonathan Frakes, who has,

Kevin: Yeah, how could we go wrong?

Rob: How can we go, there's, you know,
that man knows how to direct, uh, not

only a TV show, but a movie as well.

A great man.

He has criminally been taken away
from, uh, the director's chair in

motion pictures for far too long.

Um, I'm very excited to see what he brings
to, uh, to Discovery's final season.

Second last episode.

Um, he did great stuff with, um,
with the crossover episode of

Strange New Worlds, obviously.

But, um, yeah, bring it on.

I'm,

Kevin: not getting my hopes up for next
week because I feel like Discovery and

modern Star Trek in general has trained me
that the second last episode of season is

really just set up for the last episode.

It's gonna be place setting followed by
a cliffhanger, is what I'm expecting.

So, I'm not too excited.

I'm more excited about the two together.

Rob: Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, see how we go, and then we go
on a bit of a wait until, uh, we

finally get Season 2 of Prodigy.

Kevin: Yeah, alright.

Well, sooner we get off this call,
the sooner it'll happen, Rob.

Rob: Ha ha ha!

What are we waiting around here for?

Come on, let's go!