Episode 44: Crews going crazy! (LD4×05 Empathological Fallacies)

Rob: Hello, and welcome to
another episode of Subspace Radio.

It is me, Rob, and Kevin
is joining me as well.

Kevin: Hello!

Rob: It is another, time for Star Trek
to be talked about, and we are here

to talk about the latest episode of
Lower Decks, Empathological Fallacies.

That's right.

Kevin: Well done.

I'm glad you had to say
that one and not me.

Rob: So yes, we are back and we have
a particularly focused episode with a

species we haven't seen for some time
and also a bit of a focus on the species

we've known since the very beginning.

What were your thoughts
on this episode, Kevin?

Kevin: Um, wow, there was a lot of
swearing in this Star trek, wasn't there?

Rob: Lots of swearing.

Lots and lots and lots of swearing.

This was a big bleeping episode.

Kevin: Yeah, I mean, I hate to start
there, but it definitely took me out of

it, and especially before the reveal that
our characters were under the influence,

like, they ramped it up, and the swearing
was the first sign that something was off.

And I was like, wow, that was a
lot of beeps for one episode of

Star Trek, and that was one scene.

And I was wondering,
what is going on here?

So I'm kind of glad that there
was something unusual going on.

But it seemed like, yeah, making,
making every officer on the ship

super sweary was the shorthand for
their emotions are out of control.

Rob: Yes, very, very much so.

Kevin: Setting that aside, I
thought it was an enjoyable episode.

The idea of a Betazoid secret
service or, or, or, uh, what

Rob: Heh heh heh.

Kevin: spy network?

Rob: Yeah.

Kevin: Um, I, I enjoy that idea.

I loved, uh, getting a T'Lyn focused
episode, and we have been saying

how naturally she slots into other
characters' stories up until this

point, and now to see her, like, take
a step to the fore, even though she

was kind of hiding in the background.

Like it was, it's, sort of
the reveal of the episode that

it was about T'Lyn all along.

Um, but really good.

We got to see her give
someone a neck pinch.

Uh, we got to see her, uh, kind of wrestle
with her barely controlled emotions.

Um, really enjoyable.

Lots of references as usual.

And, um, yeah, uh, I liked it.

Rob: Yeah.

It was, uh, pretty good.

It was good to, uh, focus on the, as
always, there seems to be that passive

aggressive nature of Vulcan culture to
just completely shut people out as opposed

to talking about it openly and honestly.

It's just that whole gradually
fading out and so that leaves,

uh, T'Lyn in a position of trying
to come to terms with this state.

And of course Mariner was there to
support her through this trying time.

But it wouldn't be a Star Trek episode if
we didn't have that connected and inflamed

in some way to a, um, ridiculous level.

The crew entirely goes off the rails.

Um, I particularly loved having
the Betazoids back and what a

stellar cast of Betazoids we had.

We had Janelle James from,
uh, Abbott Elementary.

The brilliant, um, uh, Rachel Dratch,
uh, and we had of course Wendie Malick as

well and they were all in fine, fine form.

Kevin: Yeah.

All three characters were interesting
in their own ways and, and having

all three of them was such a gift.

Rob: Lots of flirting but,
you know, if, if Ransom flirts

back, she's not interested.

And lots of, uh, flirting with each other.

"I can be detached and unavailable."

Kevin: A highlight of this episode
for me was the very first shot, and

it was masterful visual storytelling.

It is a close up on T'Lyn walking down
the corridor with a crewman sort of

over her shoulder down the corridor,
out of focus, making like moony...

love eyes at her.

And the composition of the shot leads
you to believe that the object of his

affection is T'Lyn, but just in the
foreground, in front of T'Lyn kind of

bobbing in the corner of the frame, is the
bottom of one of those giant glasses of

alcohol that the Betazoids are carrying.

And just that one shot of
like, what is going on here?

There is a log entry going
on in the, foreground.

So, as an audience, you're just invited
to consider that frame of T'Lyn, someone

apparently following her, uh, with
love eyes, and, uh, a, a mysterious

vessel, uh, floating in the foreground.

And everything that happened
in this episode was like

promised in that one frame.

Rob: Exactly.

Yeah, it was it was great to see as
always Lower Decks is pulling it out

again of uh, species that we have
not seen for some time being brought

back and being the, uh, celebrated.

So we haven't even heard, really, of
the Bezoids since, uh, they were invaded

and taken over during the Dominion War.

So, finding out that they actually
do have a secret service and they're

not just all about nude weddings and,
getting emotional feelings off people.

They, uh, can kick butt as well with
lipstick slash, um, fighting weapons.

Kevin: The lipstick batons was
a bit much for me, but it was a

good visual shorthand, I thought.

Rob: It does remind me a bit
from a Doctor Who spin off.

It wouldn't be a Subspace Radio episode
if I didn't pull in other franchises.

One of the most famous companions
of the Doctor was Sarah Jane

Smith, and she got her own spin off
series back in the mid naughties

called the Sarah Jane Adventures.

And she had, instead of a sonic
screwdriver, which is the Doctor's magic

wand of choice, she had a sonic lipstick.

So it was very much in, yeah.

Get it?

Get it?

Did you get it, Kev?


Kevin: There was a B plot, uh, hidden
in this episode with, uh, well,

Rutherford putting Boimler forward for
the Security program with, uh, beat

poetry and other forms of therapy to,
to kind of calm the mind and, and make

you a more effective security officer.

What'd you think of that stuff?

Rob: And Boimler getting pretty annoyed
by the fact that he wanted to do, like,

security stuff, and he's, like, he

Kevin: Not just security stuff, but
also, like, Star Trek trivia stuff.

Like, Boimler being annoyed by a
guessing game where the answer is

Constable Odo from Deep Space Nine.

I mean, yes, he was the first person
to the answer, that's the Boimler we

know and love, but the fact that he was
annoyed did not really track with me.

It's interesting what
colors Lieutenant J.G.

is bringing out of, uh, Boims here.

Rob: Yes, and I did, um, I did appreciate
the fact of security's role on the

ship is security in more than just the,
you know, the physical labor of, you

know, grabbing your phasers and being
there, um, to be a physical threat

or physical security, you are there

Kevin: Security's opposite
is insecurity, it seems.

Rob: Exactly, exactly, so having that
emotional, psychological security with

on the ship is a part of that as well,
which hasn't really been explored,

which I thought was a very cute idea.

So yeah, it was a fun episode to
go through, but there was a lot of

tropes in there that connected us to
our wider topic to explore this week.

Kevin: Yes, the, the crew of a
starship seemingly going off the

rails, and behaving erratically.

Rob: We had quite a lot of it.

Kevin: And looking at all the other
times in Star Trek where crews have

gone off the rails or behaved out of
character, something that, for me stood

out for this episode before we leave
it is how far behind the audience was.

I feel like so often when this
happens, the audience is let

into the cause of this early.

Uh, it's an alien that we get to see
before any of the crew are aware of them,

or it's a parasite that we learn of in
the cold open, but our characters don't

discover until the climax of the episode.

In this one, we were given a
very persuasive red herring with

the presence of not one, but
three Betazoids aboard the ship.

And so we, as the audience,
were 100 percent convinced.

I don't know about you, Rob, but speaking
for myself, and I think the intent

of the episode, we were 100 percent
convinced that those Betazoids were the

cause of this until, uh, you know, the
ultimate reveal right near the end that

it's just T'Lyn's powerful self doubt
that is projecting all over the ship.

Rob: Yeah, I mean, it was, it was well
done in the way that the clues were left

behind that it was T'Lyn to begin with.

It wasn't just a case of it
was the red herring thrown.

There was those little
breadcrumbs left behind.

But it was a, it was a well laid
out, uh, mystery to be revealed.

Um, but again it was that case of this
is far too prominent, far too, uh, early.

Um, but it was good for us to be
led in, uh, with our eyes closed as

opposed to getting that little hint

Kevin: I appreciate a good
bait and switch now and then.

It worked on me.

Rob: Exactly, yeah, me too.

Kevin: But, uh, yeah, so we, we picked
a couple of episodes from the past

where crews were not themselves.

Um, shall we go
chronologically as usual, Rob?

Rob: As always, as always, let's
go back to the original series.

You got one for

Kevin: I do have one for us
from the original series.

Oh, twofer here.

Rob: It is.

Well, I couldn't really find
any in my go to stories.

It was actually quite a tricky
one to find a definition of.

So, I knew there was two that stood
out for me, that one I'd already

seen, and it kind of always, uh,
shat me to tears, so I didn't want

to go back and watch that again.

But there's always one that I've
always seen moments of, but I've

never watched the full episode.

So, it's a classic

Kevin: Might it involve
Sulu, sweaty and shirtless?

Rob: Of course it is.

This is my time to catch up on classic
episodes, iconic episodes, and so

I did, I watched The Naked Time.

Kevin: Yeah, good.

This is not my pick, so
I'll let you lead us off!

Rob: Excellent.

Well, this is the fourth episode of the
first season of the original series of

Those Old Scientists, and we have Spock
and another crewman transporting down

to a colony that needs to be evacuated
because the planet that they are on is

frozen over and is about to explode.

So they need to take off the
surviving colonists and then watch

the explosion to make, you know, build
all the scientific data around it.

However, all the crew there are
dead, killed in quite, you know,

graphic and horrifying ways.

Kevin: Some great set dressing
work with the frozen interiors

and the frozen body in the shower.

Rob: Yes, frozen body in the
shower and the colonists on the,

on the ground covered in snow
and, and collapsed on the table.

And despite the fact that the token
redshirt and, uh, Spock are there in

full spacesuit outfits, they can easily
just slip their hands underneath,

Kevin: Well, everything
seems to be in order here.

I'm gonna scratch my nose and
take off helmet, you know.

Rob: Just slip it underneath.

Just slip it underneath the helmet.

Uh, take their gloves off.

Um, it's quite a beautiful eerie shot
of the crewman's hand being placed

down and the blood from the, from that
was smeared moving its way, giving

this intention of being drawn to,
uh, to, to the life that is there.

And this begins a chain reaction of the
blood infecting, uh, the crew passed

on by sweat and touch and contact,
and everyone is drawn by their...

darker, more impulsive impulses.

McCoy describes it later on as if
they've been infected by alcohol.

Kevin: Yeah, they're all drunk.

Rob: We see Chapel and Spock have a
really interesting run in where Chapel's

affected and she affects Spock and there's
this unspoken but spoken tension there,

and it's very interesting watching it
through, uh, Strange New World eyes now.

And of course we have the iconic,
uh, Sulu earlier talking about how

fencing is the great way to go.

Fencing, oh, the only way to
keep up your health and keep

your mind fresh and keep focused.

And uh, George Takei is very good here.

He is, it's, it's not a
cringeworthy performance

Kevin: No, he's playing full
commitment and, uh, yeah, it works.

Rob: Yeah, yeah, it's not camp at all.

There's a great intensity to it,
which I really, really enjoy.

But yeah, Nimoy does, an
emotionally battled Spock.

Kevin: And so early in the series, like
this is episode four and think, three

hours of television earlier, Spock was in
the pilot, The Cage, grinning like a fool

Rob: heh, heh.

Kevin: just so quickly, the character
has developed to this point where

the idea that his stony personality
might be cracking, is the moment

of pure horror in this episode,
it is the scariest moment when you

see Spock starting to lose control.

That is the, the, the strongest
character beat this episode and that

they found that so early is amazing.

Rob: Oh, and there are moments when you
can see he's, like, clearly annoyed.

Like, the crew are falling apart, falling
asleep, you know, being distracted,

and you see, literally see Spock there,
frustrated and annoyed and sending people

off the deck in a, almost a fit of pique.

Um, it's fascinating to see.

And the great, great moment where,
you know, 1960s, uh, emotional

logic of going, well, how can
I, uh, snap Spock out of this?

Kirk goes, I'll slap him.

Well, that didn't work.

I'll slap him again, then again and again,
and again and again and again and again.

I'm like, okay, stop, stop,
he's already dead, Kirk.

And then it slips into this other, uh,
alternative plot of, uh, alternative

ending where they slip back in time.

They get in a time warp.

They go back seven

Kevin: the weird one where they're
like, oh, lucky us, it never happened.

Let's fly in a different direction.

Yeah, clock runs backwards and it's very
early on, just randomly, let's introduce

the idea of time warp, by accident.

Rob: And of course it has the memorable
line of Scotty doing a bit of a Bones

and turning to Kirk and going, I
cannot change the laws of physics!

Kevin: it's so good.

Rob: I need half an hour!

Kevin: They had catchphrases, they
had their character hooks sorted

out so early in this series.

It's so good.

So many other Star Trek series don't
find their groove until Season 2,

or even deep into Season 2, and
Star Trek was on it so quickly.

Rob: Very much so.

And especially after watching the
Naked Now, and that's been sort of

like a fuel for me to, you know,
talk about sex in Star Trek, and just

how awkward, uh, the Naked Now is.

That moment between Gates McFadden
and Patrick Stewart is still stuck

in my head, that laugh that Patrick

Kevin: Heeh-heeh-heh…

Rob: Ha, yeah, what the hell is that?

Um, but to watch this, I'm there going,
nah, there's, the build, the ratcheting

up of tension is, is quite lovely in this.

And, um, the emotional turmoil
that our characters that we

love are very good in here.

Kevin: The duality those two
episodes I think is interesting

as well, like The Naked Time, the
TOS episode, I think it's strong.

It is an early highlight of the series and
it serves that function that we've talked

about before that by making the characters
be under the influence and therefore

revealing things about themselves that
they would not normally, it is a shortcut

to help us get to know these characters
and let us into their internal lives.

And so it is such a useful episode in the
function it plays in the series early on.

Rob: Yeah, little beautiful, um, moments
of, you know, uh, Spock talking about his

family, about Kirk talking about where
he'd rather be, all this type of stuff.

You get little hints about the,
the characters so early on.

Kevin: the fact that they brought up
the exact same trick to the extent that

they referenced the episode explicitly.

In the Naked Now, which is episode
3 of Star Trek: The Next Generation,

they literally sit down at the library
computer and go, Oh, this happened

to the original Enterprise and Dr.

McCoy found cure.

This is it.

Let's try it again and see if it works.

They are that explicitly
referencing this previous episode.

But something about the TNG version
of it works so much less well.

And in part, I feel like the
writers and the actors didn't have

their characters as locked in.

And so there wasn't strong sense
of, is this out of character for me?

Or is who I am all the time?

And I don't know if they were taking
bigger swings, but the Spock/Chapel

scene, and the Picard/Crusher scene are
like, you put them next to each other

you're like, one of them really works
and is maybe the best scene episode.

The other one, you're going,
what is going on there?

They're going for something
and they're not getting it.

And I wish I could put my finger on it.

Some good things do come out of
The Naked Now, like the Data,

Tasha Yar relationship, which
echoes all the way into Picard.

Rob: Where they were intimate.

Kevin: They were intimate.

So there is stuff that is carried
forward, but this episode of TNG does

not form the foundation for characters
through the series in the same way that

it did for Spock, for example, in the

Rob: Yeah.

That scene in particular was a highlight
for me between Chapel and Spock, I

think I've already mentioned that.

Just, like, so much is being said, but
so much is not being said, and it's all

about yearning, and repression, and all
that type of stuff, and Spock trying

to come to terms and handle everything.

And what he doesn't say is so powerful,
while Chapel is just repeating it like a

mantra, I love you, I love you, and you're
there going, it's, it's hypnotizing, it's

hypnotizing how well it's done, where it's
a little embarrassing in The Naked Now.

Kevin: Yeah, it reminds me a little
of, for example, um, Star Trek Into

Darkness, the movie that, okay,
we're in a parallel universe now.

What are we going to do with what
we know of Star Trek history?

The Next Generation must have been
asking itself the same question in the

early days: how are we going to use the
history of Star Trek in this new show?

Are we going to avoid
it and be our own thing?

Are we going to embrace it and
literally bring back plots the

way they do in The Naked Now?

Or are we just going to have sprinkles
and cameos of McCoy in the pilot

and much later on Montgomery Scott
coming out of a transporter beam?

And The Naked Now, as well as Star Trek
Into Darkness, which retreads much of the

plot of The Wrath of Khan, just in a, in a
flipped alternate universe version, feels

like the version where they're like, well,
let's literally take a plot from before

and replay it in an interesting way.

I think what we learn through these
episodes and that film that is generally

considered the weakest of the new Star
Trek films, I think what we learn is

that wholesale reusing a plot will only
remind you how good the original was and

make the new one seem weak by comparison.

Rob: Exactly.


And I mean, as has been shown with
Lower Decks in their Tuvix, uh, sequel.

Just how to take that idea and then
push it beyond to the ridiculous,

not just trace the same ground.

Yeah, so what was, uh, what was your,
uh, episode of The Crew Gone Crazy?

Kevin: going take us to season three
of the original series, with Day of

the Dove, Season 3, Episode 11 of TOS.

And this is one of those, uh,
relatively short list of good

Season 3 episodes, if you

Rob: hey,

Kevin: Day of the Dove is Star
Trek's message of anti-war at

the height of the Vietnam War.

This was aired in 1968.

Rob: you saying that Star Trek
was being political back in the

Kevin: was.

I've, I've read in the excellent,
if you've got time for a big read,

These Are The Voyages, season three
by Mark Cushman, where he pulls all of

the memos and correspondence between
writers and studio execs about every

single episode of the original series.

And they went into this one, the writer
and the producer were saying, we should

try to air this episode as close to
the election as possible because the

statement we are making about the
war, we want to affect the polls we.

That is how deliberate a anti war
message is baked into this episode.

Rob: That's amazing, and also for
listeners, um, Kevin was just showing

up the book, which is obnoxiously thick.

Kevin: it's two inches thick and it covers
just one season of the original series.

Rob: That's incredible.

That's incredible.


So yeah, tell us, uh, tell us more
about this, uh, political statement

in an era which apparently had
no political statements about it.

Any, do these people even
know science fiction?

fiction is laced in political
comments and all that type of stuff.

That's what makes sci fi so great.

You do it in a way that people
just think it's entertainment.

Kevin: right.

Rob: Anyway I shall get off my soapbox.

Kevin: In Day of the Dove, a
swirling blob of light is the

antagonist and it never a line.

It is just a floating alien presence.

But what we learn in the episode
is, it subsists on violent thoughts.

And so it sets out to pit against
each other in a state of permanent

war, the crew of the Enterprise
and the crew of a Klingon vessel.

The episode opens with the Enterprise
thinking it is flying to the rescue of

a Federation colony under attack, and it
finds nothing on this desolate planet.

And then a Klingon ship flies in
and explodes, and the Klingons beam

down to the planet the last minute
and immediately blame Kirk and crew

for the destruction of their ship.

And this, these are two delusions that
are placed the minds of these crews by

this blob of an alien that arranges for
them to all beam up to the Enterprise

and then it walls off parts of the
ship so that there are exactly equal

number of combatants on each side.

And plants in their minds this racial
hatred for each other that locks

themselves into a cycle of violence.

The alien is able to convert the
walls of the Enterprise so they

are impenetrable by phasers so that
they can't get through the barriers.

It converts all of the, uh, energy
weapons the ship into swords and other

primitive weapons so that they cannot
vaporize each other, only slice and dice

each other, and the alien is able to
rapidly heal any injured crew member to

get them back into the fight right away.

But, the reason I picked this
episode against our theme of crews

acting out of character, is the...

beautiful character work that we get
to see as, one by one, the characters

we know so well three seasons in,
now, start to act out of character

in how driven by hate they are.

Chekov is the first one to show the signs
when they're still down on planet and

he calls them cossacks to their faces
he gets knocked down and from then on,

Chekov is on a mission of retribution.

When they get back on the ship, he
starts, he starts shouting about the

fact that they killed his brother,
Piotr, in an unprovoked attack on

a Federation, uh, science station.

And I'm like, ooh, a relative!

That's something we use New Worlds.

Are we gonna get to see Chekov's
brother, Piotr, in Strange New Worlds?

What I didn't remember is
this is completely delusion

that the alien is in head.

Uh, Chekov is an only child and
has no brother, but he is convinced

that he has to lost brother.

And McCoy, uh, McCoy is the
next one to show the signs.

He starts saying things like,
You know what a Klingon is.

We don't need to ask them
why they behave this way.

You know what they are.

Um, and, uh, yeah, one by one, Kirk
sees his bridge crew kind of turn to

hatred and violence, and he is puzzled
by it each time, and each one adds to

the mountain of evidence that there is
something weird going on on this ship.

Ultimately, he has to convince, Mara,
which is the Klingon captain Kang's wife.

They managed to take Mara hostage and
he, he and Spock managed convince her

that this is all an alien's doing and
that they are pawns in its sick game.

And then Kirk and Mara
go and convince Kang.

Kang is played by an amazing guest star.

For me, this is the best
Klingon in the original series.

He is the most like modern Klingons
that we now see in Star Trek, the

noble warrior driven by honor, uh, and
willing to listen to reason if there

is sense that the, the battle they
are doing is not an honorable one.

Like that ingredient is here for
the very first time in the Klingon

culture, and as a result, Kirk
is able to make Kang see reason.

And the two captains in the final
scene of this episode, they turn to the

floating ball of light, and they tell it
to ship out, and they they laugh at it

and, uh, Kang slaps Kirk on the back and
Kirk nearly falls over from the impact.

They, they point and laugh at it in
order to, like, give it the opposite of

what it thrives on, and the, the ball,
uh, makes its escape by floating through

the wall, out the hull and into space.

And that's how the episode ends.

Rob: Kang is of course played by the
brilliant Michael Ansara, who, came back

for, uh, Deep Space Nine to play the
same character, uh, with, uh, Jadzia.

And that's one of the that's
pretty much the episode that

really nails Jadzia's character.

Kevin: Amazing character
and amazing character actor.

He was in all sorts of like, my
reading suggests he was quite a

get as a guest star, but he was
mostly star in shows at this time.

So he's one of those character actors
that you bring on to bring gravitas

to very special episode of a show.

Rob: American Syrian actor, and I remember
him growing up as, uh, the voice of Mr.

Freeze in the animated series of Batman,
uh, in pretty much the, the episode

that defined the new series of, the
animated series of Batman, uh, Heart of

Ice, which rewrote the character of Mr.

Freeze to be a tragic character
seeking revenge for his dead wife.

And it's an incredibly powerful episode
and Michael Ansaro's voice is outstanding.

And yeah, when you mentioned
Kang I'm there going, that sounds

familiar, and I went, Of course,
it's Michael Ansara, one of the

greatest Klingon actors ever to live.

Kevin: Yeah, I believe it.

Great character voice as well as
just great presence on screen, too.

Um, there are certain things about
this episode that do not age well.

The number of fair skinned actors
wearing brown face makeup in this

episode is very conspicuous, particularly
Mara, the, the wife, uh, of Kang, is,

they, they laid it on pretty thick.

She, uh, she looks like a block of
chocolate walking around in this episode.

Rob: Yeah, they do that much better
in the, uh, modern series, where they

blend different actors in the make up.

Martok, of course, being a white actor.

Kevin: And there's very uncomfortable
scene in which Chekov, in his haze of

alien induced hatred, comes across Mara
in the corridor, and he holds a sword

to her neck and threatens her life,
and then you see his expression change

he goes, But you are very beautiful.

And then, uh, forces a kiss on her,
before Kirk come and Spock come

around the corner and knock him out.

And Kirk does, just as you described
before, the hit him and hit him again!

Whap, across until Spock restrains
him and says, Captain, he's not

responsible for his actions.

And uh, Pavel kind of
slumps against the wall.

Uh, at the end of the scene, Kirk
literally lifts Pavel up and holds

him in his arms, unconscious,
and he says, Chekov, Chekov, is

this what's in for all of us?

An endless cycle of violence?

as he walks off the screen with, with
his, uh, his crewman cradled in his arms.

It's good stuff, but that scene
is very hard to watch and I don't

feel like it would have been put
on screen in that form, nowadays.

Rob: Yeah, even with the justification
I do in inverted commas of him being

under the influence of this alien force.

Kevin: Yeah.

But, um, yeah, really good.

If you haven't seen it, worth a watch,
especially for like the early cultural

creation of the Klingons, here.

I think it is one of the few original
series episodes where the Klingons

are not two dimensional villains.

They have three

Rob: Great,

Kevin: Yeah.

Rob: and just to watch Michael
Ansara in his peak as Kang.

Kevin: Yeah.

The anti war message in the
writing is at times explicit.

There's a, there's a log entry.

Once Kirk figures out what's
going on, he does a captain's

log between scenes where he says,
Captain's log, stardate: Armageddon.

We must find a way to defeat
the alien force of hate that

has taken over the Enterprise.

Stop the war now!

Or spend eternity in
futile bloody violence.

Stop the war now was like written
on protest signs that were being

outside Capitol buildings in
the lead up to the election.

Rob: that's

Kevin: these, uh, at these times.

So Star Trek was wearing its,
uh, politics on its sleeve.

Rob: Whenever people do the whole thing
of oh Star Trek, it was never political,

they al always show the photo of, uh,
Frank Gorshin in makeup with the silver

half one side and black half the other

But th this one is definitely, you
know, as you've just said with the

backstory as well, is it, you know,
it was written specifically for a

reason to get a message out there

Kevin: Yeah, and, and the, hatred between
the Klingons and Federation is the

headline for sure, but the peak of this
episode for me is actually a scene on

the bridge where the bridge crew start
to turn against each other, and, uh,

just like you were talking about with
Spock, uh, kind of losing his cool with

Chapel in the, The Naked Time, I've
got some quotes here in front of me.

Spock tries to restrain Scotty,
who's a little upset, and Scotty

says, Keep your Vulcan hands off me!

Just keep away!

Your feelings might be hurt,
you green blooded half breed!

And Mr.

Spock says, May I say that I have not
thoroughly enjoyed serving with humans.

I find their illogic and foolish
emotions a constant irritant.

And Scotty says, Then transfer out, freak!

And they, they, they go at each
other, uh, pretty seriously.

And it's, it's Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and
Scotty on the bridge, going at each other.

And Kirk steps out of it at a moment
and goes, Hang on, what we doing?

We have been trained to think
in other terms than this and

yet we're behaving like animals.

What is wrong with us?

And it's this, this breaking
point that leads them to realize

what's going on in the ship.

It's a really great scene.

Rob: Awesome.

Well, I mean it, I have to keep
on reminding myself because I

watch it with The Naked Time.

There's the moment where, uh, Spock
gets his, you know, he's requested,

uh, quarantine and being examined
after they've come back from the colony

and everyone's a bit, uh, alright.

going, have we learnt nothing Alien?

we learned nothing from Alien?

Quarantine is anyway.

So when Spock has finished his
examination, uh, there's just the casual

racism of McCoy going, do you even
call it blood, that stuff inside you?

And you go, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Kevin: Credit to DeForest Kelly,
like, the casual racism that's kind

of a elbow in the ribs that you
just talked about is played very

distinctly from the something's wrong
with McCoy racism of, You know what

they are, Jim, they're Klingons.

We don't need to stop
what is motivating them.

You're going, Oh, that is,
that is a different color.

Rob: Yeah, that is very
much a case of, yeah.

Yeah, they are different to us.

And that type of stuff is brought
back in, in, um, uh, Undiscovered

Country, obviously, so beautifully.

Some of those incredible, powerful lines
of, um, Kirk's inherent prejudice and,

you know, racism built within there.

Um, that he had to
evolve and move on from.

Yeah, still beautiful.

One of my favorite parts at the end
of Undiscovered Country is, um, the

daughter and Kirk coming to terms with
the loss of their son and, uh, father.

Beautiful moment.


Kevin: Seeing characters changed.

It's the heart of drama, Rob.

Rob: That's right,
heart of sci fi as well.

Get a message across; do it in a sci
fi, fantastical way, but also move

those characters forward emotionally.

What a great three episodes to explore.

Kevin: Yeah, I did not expect
to, uh, be reminiscing about the

original series with you today, Rob.

So, um, yeah, thanks for,
thanks for pulling that one out.

Rob: Well, you know, you've been carrying
the load of next gen and original

series so much, you know, I've dabbled
a bit, if I've watched a little bit

of the animated series, I think I've
done one or two classic ones, but yes,

I thought I'd spend a bit more time,
uh, at the very heart of the early

days of this, uh, wonderful franchise.

Episode 44: Crews going crazy! (LD4×05 Empathological Fallacies)
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